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Election Central Debate Roundup

The transcript of last night's Republican debate on PBS is available here.

With the top four Republicans skipping this debate, which was dedicated to minority issues, viewers got a great chance to check out the second tier (Mike Huckabee and Sam Brownback), the third tier (Ron Paul, Duncan Hunter and Tom Tancredo), and — skipping the vacant fifth and sixth tiers — the seventh tier (Alan Keyes).

Overall, Huckabee really shined in this environment, and was in many ways the real winner of the event.

The six candidate who showed up all lambasted the no-shows to various degrees, with Mike Huckabee saying he was "ashamed" of the Republican Party for this, and Ron Paul quipping that he was there for the simple reason that he was invited, and he's glad to show up where people invite him. Sam Brownback offered black voters offended by the no-shows an easy way to get back at them: Register Republican, and vote in their primary for one of the six candidate who did show up.

Right off the bat, talk-radio host Tom Joyner got in a jab at the four Republican no-shows. "And let me take a moment right here and now to say hello to those of you viewing from home," Joyner said. "Mayor Rudy Giuliani. Senator John McCain. Governor Mitt Romney. And Senator Fred Thompson. Well, you know, I had to call them out."

This might shock some readers, but Tom Tancredo argued that he was the most racially progressive among them, on the question of showing up for debates: "I must admit to you that it is pleasurable and a little bit different to be in this kind of an environment with my colleagues who are here, because the last time I was at an event of this nature, it was the NAACP convention and I was the only Republican that showed up."

The main thrust of the candidates' arguments was that a focus on security, individual freedom and traditional values will help blacks because such an approach helps all people — and would be far superior to the welfare-state dependency offered by the Democrats.

The candidates all took a strong stance against illegal immigration, arguing that wages in the black community were being depressed by competition from illegal labor, hurting not only average workers but also small businessmen who want to play by the rules.

On health care, the candidates said that deregulation would better enable the poor to be able to afford health care, and allow for the return of family doctors, individual decision-making and personal responsibility.

Huckabee said that as president, he would hope to reform the justice system, "so that you don't have a different sentence for a 17-year-old kid caught with a lid of marijuana than you do some upper-middle-class white kid who gets caught with cocaine. He goes to rehab, and the black kid goes to prison for 10 years."

Despite the strong social conservative strain within the black community, only one candidate — Mike Huckabee — mentioned his opposition to abortion in stark terms. When asked about Darfur, Huckabee responded: "I think we have some role to play in it, but I guess what disturbs me even more, we have not even addressed the genocide that's going on and the infanticide in our own country with the slaughter of millions of unborn children."

Sam Brownback also mentioned his pro-life stance, but only in the most oblique terms after he was asked about the death penalty: "We need a culture of life in the United States, a culture that recognizes every life at every stage. It's beautiful, it's unique, it's a child of a loving God, period."

Ron Paul argued against an intervention in Darfur by the American government: "There's no moral authority. There's plenty of moral authority and responsibility for individuals to participate. But every time we get involved, no matter where, for good intentions, believe me, we're getting involved in a civil war."

Huckabee argued for a change in emphasis on drug problems, with more concern about treatment for addicts. "We've got to quit locking up all the people that we're mad at and lock up the people that we're really afraid of, the people who are sexual predators and violent offenders," he said. "But the nonsense of three strikes and you're out has created a system that is overrun with people, and the cost is choking us. I would go for more drug courts and for a lot less incarceration of drug-addicted people."

Ron Paul did him one better, calling the whole drug war racist and unfair. "For instance, Blacks make up 14 percent of those who use drugs, yet 36 percent of those arrested are Blacks and it ends up that 63 percent of those who finally end up in prison are Blacks," he said. "This has to change. We don't have to have more courts and more prisons. We need to repeal the whole war on drugs. It isn't working."

The discussion of Congressional representation for the District of Columbia was a mess. Mike Huckabee and Sam Brownback fully endorsed amending the Constitution to give District residents a say in their government, but other than that the candidates handled it in some truly atrocious ways.

On the subject of D.C. representation, Tancredo gave a flawed endorsement of retrocession as a way to solve the problem, saying that "the portion that was ceded to the federal government by Virginia should go back to Virginia, the portion that was ceded by Maryland should go back to Maryland." The original portion of the District that was ceded by Virginia was retroceded back to Virginia in 1847, leaving the modern District to come entirely from Maryland.

Duncan Hunter changed the subject. "You know, I might be a little more open to statehood for D.C. if they would allow their citizens to be able to keep and bear arms in their houses to protect their safety," he said. "And I offered that amendment a couple of years ago. It passed and when it passed, the Democrats brought down the entire crime bill rather than let D.C. residents have the right to keep and bear arms."

Alan Keyes was perhaps the worst. "That's a city that's supposed to belong to the nation, not to any one group and not to any one region. That's why it was put together in the first place. I think it's terribly important to maintain that symbol of the unity of our country," he said. "We're a free people. If folks don't want to live in the conditions that prevail in Washington because of its unique status, they can go to Maryland. A whole bunch of folks have done so."


24 Comments

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Well, this forum addressed more minority issues when it comes to drugs, infant mortality, sentencing and healthcare than any of the Democratic candidates have ever done.

What was the flaw in Tancredo's retrocession of the DC to the reciprocal states?


I have often wondered why our nation's capital is predominately black, how did that evolve?

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Eric, your description of the tiers is bizarre. E.g. look at Intrade http://www.intrade.com/jsp/intrade/contractSearch/# . Ron Paul is trading at a 5.4% chance of getting the nomination, Huckabee at 3.0% and Brownback and Hunter at a mere 0.1%. So a better description after the first tier of Giuliani, Thompson and Romney, would be Paul in the second tier (joined by McCain at 5.0%), Huckabee in the third tier and the rest of the field in the seventh tier.

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PS We should probably put Gingrich (5.2%) in the second tier with Paul and McCain. Also, Tancredo I forgot to mention is also at 0.1%. It really says something that you (and not just you! this is sounding too personal) could put Brownback (0.1%) ahead of Paul (5.4%).

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"I have often wondered why our nation's capital is predominately black, how did that evolve?" It's called "White Flight"

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haha crust, i was about to write a virtually identical comment. i think ron paul is crazy as a loon, but there's $630k that's been traded on the ron paul intrade.com market and apparently he's not a ridiculous long-shot.

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This is the most absurd thing I've ever read. What's the link between the right to bear arms and statehood???

www.campaigndiaries.com

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Is it just me or does Mike Huckabee pose a much greater threat to the Dems 08 chances than any of the 'Top Tier' candidates?

I mean, he definitely wins the 'have a beer with him' vote, can play guitar, AND does that whole loving the christ-child thingy quite well. He may not realize it but he is the perfect dupe for apathetic voters that the GOP needs if they want to have a chance in hell.

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Crust,

Ron Paul is a sane Republican, and therefore both the GOP establishment and this blog believe it in their own interest to marginalize him as much as possible so as to not clutter the stage for the other batshit Republicans. I can understand why liberal blogs want to portray Republicans as lunatics; I don't understand why the GOP shares that goal, but that's how we got to where we got today.

In all seriousness, how much support does Paul have to demonstrate before he's considered a serious candidate? Is there some objective criterion, or do you just make it up based on what the media tells you, Eric?

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Crust,

Ron Paul is a sane Republican, and therefore both the GOP establishment and this blog believe it in their own interest to marginalize him as much as possible so as to not clutter the stage for the other batshit Republicans. I can understand why liberal blogs want to portray Republicans as lunatics; I don't understand why the GOP shares that goal, but that's how we got to where we got today.

In all seriousness, how much support does Paul have to demonstrate before he's considered a serious candidate? Is there some objective criterion, or do you just make it up based on what the media tells you, Eric?

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Lid? Did Huckabee really say lid? Far out.
Besides which, it is such a poor comparison. How about comparing the average sentence of a black kid and a white kid with the same drug? Did he ever think of that?
Oh, and decriminalize lids.

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Does anyone remember "compassionate conservatism"?

The Republican Motto is "Believe What I Say, Not What I Do".

Talk is cheap... is there any other way that I can convey my meaning here?

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flywheel - I thought the same thing. Maybe it's time to start putting stock in Jif.

Eric, that's an excellent summary (and, I for one, agree with your tiering... especially with Alan Keyes).

However, Eric, what exactly did you find "the worst" about Alan Keyes's response regarding D.C. statehood or representation? That it shouldn't be afforded statehood, or that he suggested people move if they don't like the situation?

I agree that as the nation's capitol it should be afforded a unique status. It's similar to why states do not use their most populous cities as their capitols.

Too much money and influence in one concentrated area can be a bad thing, in my opinion, when its allowed to affect policy decisions and legislation. At the same time there's a valid argument about D.C. citizens not having proper representation.

I do feel that Keyes's remark of "they can go to Maryland" to be asinine, though.

It's an interesting topic. And, one I hope people will look at from different angles, instead of deciding responses were "atrocious" simply because one doesn't agree with it.

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Eric Stepp:

I agree that as the nation's capitol it should be afforded a unique status. It's similar to why states do not use their most populous cities as their capitols.

That has more to do with accidents of planning than of philosophy. In many cases, the people who first designated a state capitol did not know about what would later become chief industries attracting people to other areas.

Another reason is that a state capitol can all too often become a sort of company town, with the company being the government. All business and employment is centered around working for the government, or serving people who do work for them, of the lobbyists, etc.

Plus, there are exceptions to this rule. States where the most populous city is also the capital include Massachusetts, Indiana, Georgia, Arkansas and Rhode Island, and I'm probably missing a few more.

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Plus, there are exceptions to this rule. States where the most populous city is also the capital include Massachusetts, Indiana, Georgia, Arkansas and Rhode Island, and I'm probably missing a few more.

Arizona (Phoenix)
Colorado (Denver)
Hawaii (Honolulu)
Utah (Salt Lake City)
Minnesota (St.Paul, if you consider St. Paul as part of greater Minneapolis as many do...)
Nebraska (Lincoln)


could be missing one or two. I was curious and had to look it up...

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Another reason is that a state capitol can all too often become a sort of company town, with the company being the government. All business and employment is centered around working for the government, or serving people who do work for them, of the lobbyists, etc.

And you don't see this as a problem for D.C.? It seems bad enough with senators and representatives from Ohio, Alaska, and California suffering from the appearance of impropriety. Throw in K Street, and I'm sure muckrakers would be set for life in juicy stories.

As an FYI, 16 state capitals are also their respective state's largest city. However, many of them started as second-cities, and later grew to become the state's largest.

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I tuned in to watch the Marx Brothers and all I got was Gummo and Zeppo.

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The most common shared attribute of state capitols is that they're geographically centered. Are you saying that Republicans such as Keyes favor moving the nation's capitol to Kansas?

Course not, just muddying the waters to avoid acknowledging the GOP will do anything to disenfranchise minority voters.

Re Ron Paul in the 2nd tier; the reason he's not is that his 5% is all he'll ever get. Really, do you actually believe libertarian, crazy as it is, can ever be the mainstream of the socially conservative authoritarian-loving Republican party? Wishful thinking even for the Veep slot. Also, isn't "None-of-the-Above" holding the 2nd tier and poised to move into first place?

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Eric Stepp, regarding state capitols as company towns:

And you don't see this as a problem for D.C.? It seems bad enough with senators and representatives from Ohio, Alaska, and California suffering from the appearance of impropriety. Throw in K Street, and I'm sure muckrakers would be set for life in juicy stories."

It is indeed a problem. But that doesn't mean I'm for disenfranchising the people in state capitols. And I'm for enfranchising the residents of DC, as well. Make them a state, retrocede them to Maryland, or amend the Constitution for some other solution. I could take any one of those. But it's fundamentally wrong that this country is over 200 years old and our capitol is still without a say in Congress.

Regarding state capitols being geographically centered, that's true sometimes but not always. Massachusetts, Minnesota and Wisconsin are notable exceptions.

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"lid of marijuana"

Check out mister 1973!

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LOLZ! I haven't heard anyone use the term 'lid' since, well, since I learned that drugs are bad, mmkay, in 6th grade.

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"Ron Paul is a sane Republican,"

Ha Ha Ha
Ron Paul is a stupid racist bastard. He's anti-everything not just anti-war. Blind squirrel, nut, etc.

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How much would it cost to short enough Ron Paul to drive it down to zero?

And McCain and Gingrich for that matter.

I would think Huckabee would be doing better. If he could raise any money, he's probably their best candidate. He's way better than Thompson/Romney/McCain/Giuliani. I don't get it.

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elrapierwit, they already had a Dem forum focused specifically on African-American issues. You apparently missed it. Try google.

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That has more to do with accidents of planning than of philosophy.

Indeed so; it's also sometimes an accident of history. Virginia's capital was moved from Williamsburg to Richmond in 1780, when the city itself was little more than a wide spot in the road, in part to provide better protection from British attack. (Not that the move managed to achieve that; British troops under the command of Benedict Arnold burned Richmond in 1781.)

Similarly, New York City was the center of government for the colony of New York, but when the British occupied NYC in 1776, the state government was set up first in Kingston, and then when the British burned Kingston, the capital was moved 50 miles north to Albany, where it has remained ever since.

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