I don't understand women who don't see anything in Clinton; she is ready for change and ready to lead. As for John Edwards, the only thing we can count upon him is to make government control health care, which would further ruin things in the U.S.A.

What moralistic nonsense. And exactly the kind of religious, family values pandering that worries me about Obama.

Yeah, man. Hillary only panders to polluters and those ripping off the pilgrims. :-)

Hey, Destor, I have to begrudgingly agree with you that this is some ugly stuff.

Should have no place in a campaign.

Leave the Bible readings and finger pointing to the Clintons. They are best at it. The Obamas are no competition.

Best, Terry

It is interesting to me that women are rallying around Hillary, rather than seeking a candidate who has succeeded on her own merits.

After Mrs. George Wallace was elected governor of Alabama because George Wallace had served the maximum time, it did my heart good to hear George was sent off with the wives of the other governors to be amused while the men and Mrs. George Wallace discussed substantive issues.

If Mrs. Bill Clinton becomes president, will visitors to the White House decide they prefer to have their wives stay with them? After all George was confined to a wheelchair and was quite harmless in that condition.

Best, Terry

Interesting that you read "family values and trust" and rephrased it as "religious, family values". Where did you find religious?

Do you find family values and trust unimportant in a candidate? Do explain.

Might want to rephrase that from a black and white view of things--I doubt the choices are "don't see anything" and "see everything" when it comes to Hillary.

Interesting that you read "family values and trust" and rephrased it as "religious, family values". Where did you find religious?

Destor saw the lecture to Hillary as part and parcel of religious fanaticism that has infected politics.

I think it's fair to criticize Destor for assuming religious intolerance in Destor's post but it does appear to me to the Obamas are trying to get a piece of the action in the religion lottery along with the most extreme wingnuts and the Clintons. Unfortunate is the slime that then attaches to those who are truly Christian and have no part in such gamemanship.

Whatever the case, I am appalled myself by Michelle Obama's attack on Hillary for her "open" marriage. It is none of our business I think. No one in their right mind would call this heretic religious.

JMO. I think all three of us are pretty much on the same wavelength despite the quibbles.

Best, Terry

js, this simply not "down/dirty scorched earth campaign". Interesting that Michelle's mild comments led directly to Bill and Hillary.

When I read your post, party-of-one, I got a bit disquieted with a funk about the possibility of a public rehashing of all that business as in 'sex sells', n'est pas? So, I suppose it could become a theme or subtheme of pundrity and vicious commentary throughout not only a general campaign if Hillary is the nominee [ad naseum flashes of that one picture again of Bill hugging a glowing faced Monica], but also extending throughout any years Bill C. might again spend in the White House.

For very different reasons, I hope we nominate someone else, but this really could be some __________[insert word] baggage.

Yep

It is imporant to keep in mind that Obama is in a particularly challenging, head-to-head competition with Hillary to win the black vote. Evidently, Hillary has a strong appeal for working class women of all races. I think Michelle's remarks about family values and Obama's role as husband and father are meant especially to resonate with an important community of voters where many households are female-led and single-parent(65 percent of African-American children live in a single-parent households), and where there is a widely acknowledged need for more, strong, responsible male role models. In their campaign the Obamas are sending a message of hope and encouragement to many of us, and a particularly distinctive and personal message to black families.

http://www.kidscount.org/sld/compare_results.jsp?i=722

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/abstract/pjim06.htm

http://jobs.stateuniversity.com/pages/28/Unemployment-RACE-GENDER-MARITAL-STATUS.html

http://www.allacademic.com/meta/p95233_index.html

recall where it leaped when the charge of "who is she referring to" when she mentioned family values, religion (something she didn't even mention) and trust.

"Family values," like "middle class," has become a red flag to me even when there isn't the evil intent.

Thank you for clarifying.

Note that the Clintonistas have leaped on the same previously as an attack on Hillary.

Elsewhere I have noted the Clintonista propaganda that has even been picked up by the studiously impartial Taegan Goddard Political Wire.

See Barat Obama.

The Big Lie is very effective when wielded by expert propagandists. Maybe Hillary should be known as Rove Heavy.

Best, Terry

"some serious scrutiny"

Really bizarre of you to use such a phrase, hadenough. I couldn't stop laughing.
You come on this thread this morning, pass over everything written, lock onto an anti-Obama tidbit that tickles your amply demonstrated desire to fling mud, post your ugly comment..... all the while [geez, I really can't stop laughing] you remain ignorant of the fact-checking in the rest of the thread which had thoroughly discounted that source of your tidbit.

I already did. Of course to the likes of people like you, obamavangelists, the sun still spins around the earth. And it always will.

But since you asked* lets start with obama's karl rove style dirty tricks shop repeating the most vile rightwing lies then continue with obama lying about his opponents positions and continue up to maybe the most serious mistake yet:

"“Our view is that if you can’t run your own house, you certainly can’t run the White House,” Mrs. Obama said."

Mrs. Obama says we should dig in to the obama house and see how it's run. Wonder if any reporters will take her up on that.

*Sorry but I’m not gonna copy and paste the most vile and disgusting things camp obama copied from repubs. I’m not gonna copy and paste the endless lies of obama.

"Back up your innuendo about Michelle and Barack on your own."

What in the world are you talking about?

Mrs. obama:
"“Our view is that if you can’t run your own house, you certainly can’t run the White House,” Mrs. Obama said."

According to Mrs. obama how her house run is not only fair game it's a must see. Otherwise how will we know if the obama's can run the white house. You can call that my "innuendo" I'd call it Mrs. obama's huge mistake.

Instead of asking "reporters" to investigate the nonsense you've brought up, go out and get it yourself. Report back to us. Clear enough?

I agree. mrs. obama is spouting nonsense. She can only hope no reporter holds her to her statement.

And yeah, I'll get right on that and get back to ya. Sure I will.

Quote is accurate. You and the other Hillary groupies in the blogosphere are attempting to smear Michelle by drawing a line between this quote and Hillary. The line exists only in your imaginations as others in this thread have pointed out.

Michelle talks about how Barrack is a great father, has her back on things that come up, and is a great role model for their two daughters. She then says, "Our view is that if you can't run your own house, you certainly can't run the White House."

Congratulations to the Hillary groupies on your use of Rove tactics. Something to be proud of...not.

Ok, I will do this, though I won't hold my breath waiting for you to acknowledge the truth of your error. [I do believe, hadenough, that the NYT quote was purposefully pulled out of context to give substance to the reporter's theme of Obama sharpening the message in Iowa]

This is from the the Breitbart site, dated 8-13-07 with the post heading OBAMA'S WIFE DECRIES BLACKNESS QUESTION
and refers to Michelle's 8-12-07 speech:

'She also told the several hundred people at the elaborately decorated Grand Ballroom that she hoped her husband serves as a role model in how he helps raise their two young daughters.

"If you can't run your own house, you certainly can't run the White House," she said.'

Got the context now?

So Michelle is proud of her house: more power to her. The comment, however, is transparently directed at the other candidates especially Hillary.

"All seems infected that th' infected spy,
As all looks yellow to the jaundiced eye."
- Alexander Pope

The full quote and article tells an entirely different story.

I was caught myself by the seeming reference to Hillary's "open marriage." I found it abominable and said so, to my great regret.

Michelle Obama talks of an ethnic group where nearly 2/3rds of the children are raised in one-parent families. She has every right to be proud of her family and home under the circumstance and to talk about it joyfully. Why in heaven's name wouldn't she?

A delightful aging "interracial couple" (Gawd I hate that mischaracterization) at the organization meeting for Obama I attended were later putting on a wine-tasting party to raise funds for Obama. Imagine the stories those two very accomplished people could tell about their decades of marriage. They were the only people, in a very diverse gathering, that had an obvious stake in supporting Obama.

Good to try to see people on their own terms sometimes.

The only people that deserve to be dissed are Hillary and Bill but Michelle Obama didn't do it. The marriage of the Clintons is their own problem and responsibility as far as I am concerned. Their corruption is everybody's business.

Family values has long been a code word of the religious right. If the Obama camp couldn't figure out that using it would bring unpleasant overtones with it, they are tone deaf.

As far as I know, Michelle never used the phrase. The reporters did.

Best, Terry

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