presenting herself as the race's real problem solver, and weaving it into a larger argument about strengthening the economy

Presentation is nice, but where's the beef?  Predator lending is an old issue. How about Hillary provide some evidence of what she has done on this issue for the past 6 years in the Senate?  Hillary is good for jumping on the bandwagon of hot issues but she does not have a track record of actual doing anything. She is all talk.

Was she on any relevant committees? Was she in the position to introduce consumer lending legislation?

Come on, give her credit -- the government stepping in to keep people from losing their homes is a good idea. You don't have to present every little thing she does as a cynical ploy.

thosethingswesay.blogspot.com

Folks, I feel your pain.

Was she in the position to introduce consumer lending legislation?

It is all about choices.

She was able to become the Senate chair for the India caucus and enable them to outsource jobs. She is able to boast about how she has represented India so well that she could easily win elections there. During that time she was representing them, predator lenders were busy robbing American citizens of their savings and dream of owning a home.

 Hillary Clinton based on her national stature as a former first lady and spouse of a President is able to advocate on a national level for whatever issue she believes Americans need more help on.  She did not take a leadership role on this issue.

She is the candidate running on experience. Where is her track record on this issue. What has she done? Point me to her leadership on this issue. What legislation has she co-sponsored to help consumers with mortgages. I am tired of her Johnny come lately memes. Where's the beef?

She chose to become the Chair of the Senate Caucus for India instead.. She gets lots of credit for that from Indian immigrants. Her upstate NY constituents find that she failed them by bringing in TATO and supporting more working Visas for immigrants to take their jobs or them to be outsource.

 It is not me that is presenting her actions as cynical rather it is her deeds which demonstrate her cynicism and political expediency when it comes to Americans, their jobs, their dream homes and most importantly their lives.

Now why does that not surprise me?

Can anyone tell us how much money Hillary has received from the banking and mortgage industry? Let's all recall, she represents all Americans and lobbyists for those corporate industrys are just Americans like the rest of us...who good ol equal access Hill represents.

That line about lobbyists is as memorable as the one where she has no regrets about sending Americans to die by giving Bush the authority to wage war. Good 'ol equal access Hill.

Whether it is American lives or dream homes...she is not influenced by lobbyists. ha!

Cause it is not the money, she would have us believe.

Is this going to be your answer to Hillary every single time she raises an issue? If she says she wants to do Thing A, you'll ask her why she didn't accomplish Thing A already in the Senate?

If she said she wanted to go to Mars you'd be asking why she wasn't on Mars already. Go on, I'm setting you up here... say you'll be happier if Hillary moved to Mars!

thosethingswesay.blogspot.com

I seem to remember a discussion a few weeks back in the Cafe about this issue and it was suggested that part of the problem also seems to be that these debts are being sold to third parties. When this is done it throws a wrench into the lender-borrower relationships/agreements and removes the lender (the party likely willing to renegotiate the terms) from the equation. I am no expert in economics but this seems like it would make things more difficult to get a handle on.

There are certainly predatory lenders out there. The entire industry certainly needs reform and at least some modest attempt at oversight. But isn't the problem much much bigger and more complex then simply going after a few token sketchy lenders? I'm a bit inclined to include financial services onto my list of "public services" that I feel should privatized institution but rather strictly regulated. My rational is that these public services (including electricity, water, health care, etc.) are vital to our citizen's and nation's well being and should not be turned into capitalistic feeding frenzies. The "market" has proven time and again that it is a terrible custodian to the public well being. And while I do appreciate candidates talking about issues (for a change) I hope this isn't another example of election cycle rhetoric where they throw the more (more) or the word (less) in front of an issue and that's about all we get.

Yeah, the problem is not some loan officer in a strip mall real estate office. The problem is that lenders used to negotiate with their borrowers when they got into trouble. Now, they can't because lenders sell the loans to institutional investors and those loans are often sold on terms that don't allow for changes in the loan terms. It's understandable since the hedge fund or pension fund that buys the loan wants the 12$ they signed up for, not a negotiated 8%. But, that is the problem -- A huge, unregulated secondary mortgage market.

thosethingswesay.blogspot.com

What measures has Hillary taken while a Senator to regulate the secondary mortgage industry?
Has she co-sponsored any legislation that would lessen the harm to consumers? That would shore up their rights when they are unable to pay?

She voted against the bankruptcy reform bill. Had her side won that debate, a lot of people wouldn't be in fear of losing their homes right now.

Obama voted against it too. Is that enough to establish credibility on this issue?

thosethingswesay.blogspot.com

Please clarify. Hillary voted for the Bankruptcy Bill in 2001, which openned Pandora's Box on preditory credit card interest rates.

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=107&session=1&vote=00036

I was referring to the more recent bankruptcy bill, which she voted against in 2005. Remember, it was the one that Josh tried to lead a charge against? And Lieberman voted for cloture but then voted against the bill knowing the Republicans would pass it anyway. It was frought of drama.

thosethingswesay.blogspot.com

This is exactly right. It's just like the stupid idea of getting to universal health care by paying the insurance companies whatever they ask to cover those currently uninsured.

There is the obvious problem that the predatory borrowers have already packaged the loans and sold them to a bunch of poor suckers out in the general market, but that won't be helped by simply throwing money at the predatory lenders. For that you need a) a salutary lesson that when someone offers you returns that look too good to be true, they are, and b) thorough investigation of the disclosures made when those securities were sold, so that people who were deceived when they purchased (shares of) the predatory loan packages can put the liability back where it belongs.

Oh, yeah, and real bankruptcy reform so that getting 60 days behind in your payments never means losing your house...

What Hillary says and what Hillary does are often miles apart. Thanks for her statement. It's great to have her research staff so handy.

Thanks too for the reference for Obama's introduction of specific legislation, which is a step or two beyond rhetoric in the direction of policy substance.

Hillary is the topic. Let's stay focused. We do not need to discuss other candidates to get an understanding of Hillary's track record.

We know that Hillary follows the public polls she speaks out on issues on whatever way the polls determine is most popular.

I want to know what her deeds are after she makes these advocacy statements and claims she is going to do something.

Go to http://clinton.senate.gov/news/statements/index.cfm and you will find press releases of 3000 or 4000 accomplisments and leadership issues.

Some are substantial, such as leading the effort to prevent the privatizing of Amtrak. Many are fluff such as "Statement of Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton on National Hunger Awareness Day."

But, pray tell, I do remember that the past 6 years have been difficult for any Democrats to get much of anything accomplished.

Many are fluff such as "Statement of Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton on National Hunger Awareness Day."

More words, nothing but words. I am so sickof her talk, talk, talk.

If she didn't talk so much and try to follow the polls so much, she might have actually been able to take a stand on something and drive an issue of importance, work with her peers to gain consensus and introduce legislation that was needed. Instead she grandstands and thinks folks don't know the difference between words and deeds.

None of Hillarys supporters can point to any track record of accomplishment for her despite them all claiming that she has so much experience. I am tired of the diversionary tactics and the potshots at other candidates.

I want these ardent supporters to show what she has done.

...but also to keep the 20-year plan for a 4-term co-presidency on schedule. "Tawdry is temporary, ambition is forever." hehe

Oops. Sent on a "Wild Goose Chase." It doesn't exist!

OK you asked for it. Here are some of the bills that Clinton introduced into the Senate in this year! Yes, that's only 7 months. In fact there's lots more that my keywords search did not catch. Somehow I know that nobody will be satisfied that she has been a whirligig of action as well as an effective spokesperson for the issues across the liberal slate:

** Clinton-Stevens Amendment for Enhanced 911 Funding Included in 9/11 Commission Recommendations Bill
** Clinton, Mikulski Announce Bill to Extend Family and Medical Leave for Families of Wounded Soldiers
** Senator Clinton to Offer Amendment to Continue TSA Ban on Butane Lighters Aboard Aircraft
** Senator Clinton Announces Bill to Step Up Federal Commitment to Environmental Justice
** Senator Clinton Introduces Legislation to Stop Department of Homeland Security Downsizing of Federal Protective Services
** Clinton, Kerry Legislation Requires Pentagon to Prepare for Iraq Redeployment
** Clinton Sponsors Senate Bill to Steer Nuclear Regulatory Commission Fines to Local Emergency Planning
** Senators Clinton and Bond Announce Introduction of Pre-Kindergarten Legislation
** Senators Clinton and Kerry Introduce Bill to Improve Mentoring Opportunities for At-Risk Youth
** Senator Clinton Introduces Bill to Give Servicewomen Access to Emergency Contraception
** Senator Clinton Introduces Legislation to Help Safeguard Children Against Lead Hazards in the Home
** Clinton and Specter Introduce the Rural Students College, Career, and Community Readiness Act of 2007
** Senate Approves Clinton Measures to Help Wounded Servicemembers
** Clinton and Reynolds Introduce the Screening for Health of Infants and Newborns (SHINE) Act of 2007
** Senator Clinton Co-Sponsors Bills to Address Decline of Honey Bee Population
** Clinton, Smith Reintroduce Bill to Combat the Severe Nursing Shortage Facing Our Nation
** Senator Clinton Sponsors Bill to Improve Minority Health
** Senator Clinton Introduces Legislation to Improve Healthcare Quality
** Clinton, Harkin, Tauscher Reintroduce Bill to Help Finance School Construction
** Kennedy, Harkin, Clinton, Mikulski to Introduce Legislation to Stop Pay Discrimination
** Global Warming Clinton Amendment Approved by Senate Armed Services Committee
** Clinton, Hagel, Menendez Introduce Measure to Remove Barriers to Reunification for Immigrant Families
** Clinton, Domenici Reintroduce Bill to Improve Response to Mental Health Consequences of Major Disasters
** Senator Clinton Sponsors Bill to Provide Free Postage for Military Families
** Smith and Clinton Amendment to Assist Individuals with HIV Passes in Final Budget
** Clinton Reintroduces Legislation to Restore FEMA to Independent, Cabinet-Level Status
** Brown and Clinton Introduce New Legislation Connecting Farms and Underserved Communities
** Senator Clinton, Representative Murphy Introduce New GI Bill for the 21st Century
** Senators Clinton, Collins and Representatives Engel, Fossella Introduce Diabetes Legislation
** Bono Joins Lowey, Clinton, Smith, and Bachus in Unveiling Education for All Act
** Senators Lautenberg, Clinton Introduce Bill to Apply Sanctions to U.S. Companies that Do Business with Iran
** Clinton Reintroduces Bill Requiring Hospitals to Offer Rape Victims Emergency Contraception
** Senator Clinton Joins with Senate Colleagues to Introduce Legislation to Protect America's Workers
** Senator Clinton Co-Sponsors Hate Crime Legislation
** Senators Bayh and Clinton Introduce Legislation to Provide Better Care for Soldiers with Traumatic Brain Injury
** Senator Clinton Introduces Resolution Calling for Opening of Holocaust Archives
** Clinton, Velazquez Announce Reintroduction of Affordable Housing Legislation
** Senators Clinton and Kerry Introduce "Zero-Emissions Building Act"
** Senator Clinton Introduces Legislative Initiatives to Help Restore the Promise of Rural America
** Senator Clinton Announces Bill to Reauthorize Pediatric Rule
** Clinton, Reid Reintroduce Legislation to Strengthen Medicaid Coverage for Family Planning Services
** Clinton Secures Passage of Measure to Improve Healthcare Quality
** Smith and Clinton Offer Amendment to Assist Individuals with HIV
** Senator Clinton Introduces Legislation to Expand Teach for America
** Clinton Reintroduces the 21st Century Housing Act
** Senators Clinton, Collins, Reintroduce Legislation to Help Fight Growing Rates of Diabetes Striking Pregnant Women Across Nation
** Senator Clinton Announces Legislation to Expand Mercury Pollution Monitoring
** Dingell, Clinton Announce Initiative to Expand Access to Healthcare Coverage to All Children
** Senator Clinton, Representative Tubbs Jones Announce Reintroduction of Major Election Reform Bill
** Schumer, Clinton Offer Amendments to Bolster 9/11 Recommendations Bill to Fix Homeland Security
** Senators Voinovich, Carper, Clinton and Coleman Introduce Infrastructure Improvement Bill
** Senators Clinton, Schumer Re-Introduce Legislation to Compensate Nuclear Workers
** Senator Clinton, Representative DeLauro Reintroduce Paycheck Fairness Act
** Senators Clinton and Snowe Introduce Legislation to Expand Access to Healthcare for Legal Immigrant Children
** Senators Clinton and Schumer Introduce Measure to Preserve 9/11 Funding
** Senators Clinton and Sununu Reintroduce Legislation to Protect Children in and Around Vehicles
** Senators Hagel and Clinton Reintroduce Lung Cancer Resolution
** Senator Clinton Announces Legislation to Require Investigation of Disability Claims for Wounded Soldiers
** Waxman, Schumer, and Clinton Unveil Bill to Create Clear Pathway for Generic Biologic Drugs
** Senator Clinton Cosponsors Essential Air Service Preservation Act of 2007
** Senator Clinton Reintroduces Student Borrower Bill of Rights
** Marking 14th Anniversary of Landmark Family and Medical Leave Act, Senator Clinton Announces Proposal to Expand Leave Flexibility for Working Parents
** Nelson, Clinton, Snowe Reintroduce Voice Over Internet E-911 Legislation
** Senators Sununu, Clinton, Gregg Introduce “Michelle’s Law” to Ensure College Students Have Access to Medical Leave
** Clinton Announces Legislation to Make Health Insurance Available to All Children
** Senator Clinton Reintroduces Bill to Help Make College More Affordable and Accessible
**

I think you are confusing "action" with "motion." What does a long list generated by her press office prove? Anyone can logon to Clinton's website (or any politician's) to see the PR. How many of these did she author and introduce as opposed to just signing on co-sponsor in a PR move? How many are serious efforts with real follow up? How many are under serious consideration by committees currently? How many have become law? Leadership isn't just generating paper and claiming credit.

"Hillary's lack of accomoplisments and leadership on any issue"

See below. I think the record is clear that Clinton has a striking record of accomplisments and leadership across the entire gamut of liberal causes.

It's a legitimate question but not an honest one. That's my blunt assessment, and I hate to be blunt about other people on this board. You provide the list, they'll ask which became law. If you provided a list of bills that became law, they'd ask you to document the positive effects of those laws. It's never ending. And, the questions don't seem to apply to anyone but Hillary in this dicussion, so far.

thosethingswesay.blogspot.com

I didn't mean to demean his/her work.

But there's a big problem developing here... Obama's supporters are messianic -- they ask questions of Hillary that they would not dare to have asked of Obama, they tell us Hillary can't be elected in the general in spite of the hurdles Obama would have to leap, and they speak to those of us who haven't settled on Obama as the nominee as if we are apostates.

I'm not for Hillary at this point. But I am dead set against holding Hillary to prophetic standards that she can't meet, that Edwards can't meet, and that Obama can't meet.

The Obama supporters, through sheer volume of posts, by down-rating other comments and by ganging up on other commenters here are attempting to impose their will. It makes me loathe both Obama and his supporters.

thosethingswesay.blogspot.com

She has an active PR machine. Anything else, concrete results?

destor23 said, "I am dead set against holding Hillary to prophetic standards that she can't meet, that Edwards can't meet, and that Obama can't meet."

But, Hillary is claiming "prophetic standards that she can't meet"! Holding her accountable for those claims is a responsiblity of citizenship. She claims she has vast "experience" and is the most qualified person in the nation to be president based on her RECORD. Where's the substance behind that claim? I don't think hollow rhetotic and co-sponsored, symbolic, dead-end legislation is evidence of extraordinary qualities of policy insight and leadership.

"hollow rhetotic and co-sponsored, symbolic, dead-end legislation"

How do you know the rhetoric is hollow? How do you know the legislation is symbolic (fake?) and not an expression of her true aspirations? Oh, yes, you just know it in your heart.

Rhetoric and legislation are a Senator's job. Clinton has done her job very well.