Election Central Morning Roundup

Comments (18)

CalD wrote on August 30, 2007 9:34 AM:

What's up with McCain and those cheeks? He looks like he's storing up acorns for the winter.

mopper wrote on August 30, 2007 9:41 AM:

Obama continues to poll in the low-mid 20's in Iowa, which is good. He seems to have made back up all the ground he lost there in April/May/June, when he was getting hammered badly.

mopper wrote on August 30, 2007 9:42 AM:

Actually, looking at the poll, its more like May/June/July when he took a hit in Iowa

Outside the beltway wrote on August 30, 2007 10:30 AM:

the iowa poll is funny.

Hillary is last among democrats among "likeability"

poetry wrote on August 30, 2007 10:38 AM:

This country elected Bush twice because "he was the kind of guy they'd like to have a beer with."

Maybe we could progress as a species of voters and vote for a candidate based on something more substantive this time.

Furthermore, the Rasmussen poll reports that 84% of Democrats have a favorable opinion of Hillary Clinton.

bob wrote on August 30, 2007 10:51 AM:

The Univision debates aren't in Spanish. The GOP presidential candidates, other than McCain, know they have lost the Hispanic vote with their supposedly tough stances on immigration.

Who cares about New Jersey polls? They should not get equal time with Iowa polls.

Fuck off Kleefeld wrote on August 30, 2007 11:18 AM:

Oh fuck off.

Hsu logged $23,000 in direct contributions to Hillary. Hsu individually pledged to raise $100,000 for Hillary's campaign.

Hsu donated $2000 to Obama. In 2004.

Obama & other Dems will eventually divest Hsu-tainted donations.

Except waiting for them to do so would deprive Kleefeld, TPM's resident AIPAC Liberman Clintonista, from tarring others with "They did it too."

See Abramoff, donations, Repugs, Dems ("They did it too.")

Penn, Kleefeld, two of a kind.

poetry wrote on August 30, 2007 11:25 AM:

I have read that Hsu has given Barack Obama $7,000, not the $2,000 one poster claims.

stlounick wrote on August 30, 2007 12:54 PM:

Poetry is correct.

$2000 for Obama's 2004 Senate campaign
$5000 for Obama's PAC fund

No bundling, just straight donations to these funds.

NCSteve wrote on August 30, 2007 1:09 PM:

Although the sentiments of "F**k Off Kleefeld" were not necessarily expressed in a productive manner, I've got to say he or she has a point. The comment regarding Obama's supposed refusal to return contributions from Hsu was off base. And, frankly, this is not the first time I've seen a comment at TPM Election Central that could be interpreted as disclosing a pro-Hillary bias.

There's nothing wrong with being for one candidate over another. Some of the things I've seen written at TPM overall make me suspect that candidate preferences among the TPM'ers are not uniform. That's all good. Squabble as we may, we're all more or less on the same side come November.

However, if the candidate preferences of each person writing at TPM are not going to be explicitly disclosed (and, if they have, I missed it), TPM implicitly assumes a mantle of objectivity. It is, in my view, wrong to take cheap shots favoring one candidate over another from behind that mantle. (I have rather less of a problem with cheap shots from people whose preferences are known, as long as they're entertaining.)

In my view, the Hsu write-up qualifies as a cheap shot against Obama. Hsu gave 23K to Hillary's presidential campaign and in a silly, but nonetheless mandatory, act of symbolic expiation, her campaign is writing a check in that same amount to charity.

There is no evidence that Hsu contributed to Obama's presidential campaign. Instead, three years ago, he contributed a comparatively measly 2K to Obama's 2004 senatorial campaign, both legally and practically an entirely separate entity from Obama's presidential campaign committee.

Did Hsu contribute to Hillary's rather more recent 2006 senatorial campaign? We don't know, but I would be surprised if he did not. If so, is Hillary's 2006 Senatorial campaign likewise symbolically disgorging a similar amount? We don't know. No sign that it is, however.

Indeed, Hillary's 2006 senatorial campaign dumped a huge amount of cash into her presidential campaign, about ten million of the forty to fifty million in the bag as of the last quarterly reports, I believe. Given that, applying the standard of purity you imply Obama has fallen short of, shouldn't her presidential campaign be required to contribute some additional amount to charity representing a percentage of Hsu's contributions to her Senate campaign equal to the proportion of her Senate warchest that was moved into her presidential campaign?

Silly? Of course its silly. That's my point. Disgorging contributions from people who, in retrospect, are found to have some moral or ethical shortcoming is at least symbolically useful if done before the campaign is over. AFter the campaign is done, however, the contribution has already served its purpose and the gesture is so utterly futile as to border on hypocrisy. Thus, comparing Hillary's digorgement from her presidential campaign to Obama's statement regarding his Senate campaign is an apples to oranges comparison, a classic, if artful, cheap shot (yeah, I know its a mixed metaphor).

Tsk.

poetry wrote on August 30, 2007 1:56 PM:

It appears to be of NO importance to the pro-Obama folks here that the Obama campaign will not be retuning Mr. Hsu's donations to Obama.

But, let's imagine for a moment that the situation were reversed and Obama WAS giving back Hsu's money and it was Hillary who was NOT giving back (or giving to charity) the money Hsu gave to her campaign.

Yikes, grab the ear plugs -- my hears hurt from the shrieking for the pro-Obama folks about how awful Hillary is to keep the money, and how "pure" Obama is.

Try to be consistent, folks, and apply the same standard to all our Democratic candidates.

poetry wrote on August 30, 2007 2:01 PM:

Hillary Clinton did NOT need Mr. Hsu's or any other single donor's money to win re-election as New York's junior senator; she won in a landslide.

Fuck off Kleefeld wrote on August 30, 2007 2:59 PM:

poetry wrote on August 30, 2007 11:25 AM: I have read that Hsu has given Barack Obama $7,000, not the $2,000 one poster claims.

A. Hsu donated $5,000 to Hope Fund America, an Obama PC affiliate.

B. Hsu donated $10,000 to HillPAC, a Hillary PAC affiliate.

C. Cancel both PACs -- whose disbursements include other Democrats -- and Clinton still ends up with $12,600 of Hsu money to Obama's $2000.

It's entirely accurate to report Hsu donated only and directly $2000 to Obama's campaign. It's apparently accurate some/many/most Clintonistas shared the same affinity for opacity, dissembling, political filth -- as "their" candidate.

poetry wrote on August 30, 2007 3:18 PM:

There's an old joke which runs:

- - - - -

Billionaire to woman: "Would you have sex with me for a million dollars?"

Woman: "Well ... yes"

Billionaire to woman: "Would you have sex with me for ten dollars?"

Woman: "What kind of a girl do you think I am?"

Billionaire: "We've already determined that. Now we're just arguing over the price."

- - - - -

Aren't we "just arguing over the price" here?

What possible difference does it make it whether Obama got $2,000, $3,000, $4,000 or $7,000 from Mr. Hsu? If it is "wrong" to take Mr. Hsu's money, we are just arguing over the amount, not the ethics of taking money from Mr. Hsu.

Fuck off Kleefeld wrote on August 30, 2007 3:28 PM:

Is there a PATTERN here?

Filth received, filth returned, continued ...

David Rosen, Hillary's former finance director, has been indicted on four counts of filing false reports with the Federal Election Commission.

Abdul Rehman Jinnah, A Pakistani fugitive who hosted fundraisers in Southern California for Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton is being sought by the FBI on charges that he funneled illegal contributions to Clinton’s political action committee.

Andrew Grossman, Hillary's Senate campaign treasurer, is found legally responsible by the FEC for three false FEC reports that disguised $1.2 million in cash in-kind contributions from convicted felon Peter Paul.

Tony Rodham, Hillary's brother, Tony is fighting a court order to repay more than $100,000 he received from Mark and Diane Rich, the former pardoned by President Clinton.

Hugh Rodham, another brother, received $400,000 in fees from two people, one of whom received a Clinton commutation and one a Clinton pardon. Hugh Rodham says he has since returned the money.

Denise Rich contributed $70,000 to a fund supporting Hillary's Senate bid before Mark Rich was pardoned by President Clinton.

... and the beat goes on

kjoe wrote on August 30, 2007 3:43 PM:

On balance, I think Hillary wins on this. There are many substantive issues upon which she and Obama disagree, and that is dangerous territory for her. Something like this, which can be more-or-less spun to the kiss-access mainstream press that "they are pretty much alike on this issue" helps Hillary---any attention to something essentially meaningless, detracts from Obama's ability to focus on the very significant differences between them.

bjobotts wrote on August 30, 2007 7:21 PM:

Kucinich still the only candidate calling out Bush and Cheney war rhetoric with Iran. Voted against FISA, against the Patriot Act, the Military Commissions Act, the Authorization to Use Military Force. Only candidate to state directly that he would end NAFTA and withdraw the US from the WTO. introduced not for profit single payer national healthcare into the House while the others are still debating on what the ins. co. can do for us. Introduced articles of impeachment on Dick Cheney into the house, advocates complete troop withdrawal from Iraq., Told Rumsfeld he was not answering the questions in the Tillman affair to his satisfaction to Rumsfeld's face. The other candidates do not even compare to Kucinich and since after the horror of Bush and with the present GOP hopefuls being a virtual joke, "electability" is not an issue in this presidential election, so there is no reason not to get the best candidate nominated to be president. Kucinich/Edwards '08...the real truth ticket. Perfect...they cannot be bought.

poetry wrote on August 30, 2007 10:07 PM:

In spite of what one poster writes, the Obama campaign returned $7,000 to Mr. Hsu.

So, I guess we can conclude I was right and you were wrong -- and that Hsu had given $7,000 to Obama.

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