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Election Central Morning Roundup

By Eric Kleefeld and T. W. Farnam - August 3, 2007, 9:26AM


Dodd Takes On O'Reilly

Chris Dodd appeared on Bill O'Reilly's show yesterday, and got into an amusing argument with the manic right winger over Daily Kos. "What I'm stunned at, Mr. O'Reilly is the fact that you spend as much time here going after an online community gathering, where there are 500,000 people who visit that site on a daily basis here, to identify five, six, seven, eight objectionable, offensive cartoons or comments that people are making," Dodd said right off the bat. "I find that rather stunning, to be quite honest with you here." It got even crazier from there, with Dodd calling out O'Reilly for his past remarks in favor of Al Qaeda bombing San Francisco, and O'Reilly denying he ever said it and screaming at Dodd about Media Matters.



Pakistan Hits Back At Obama

Officials in Pakistan have blasted Barack Obama for promising to approve unsanctioned missions in their territory. "It's a very irresponsible statement, that's all I can say," Pakistan's Foreign Minister Khusheed Kasuri said. "As the election campaign in America is heating up we would not like American candidates to fight their elections and contest elections at our expense." An official also blasted Tom Tancredo for suggesting nuking Mecca in retaliation for a terrorist attack.

Poll: Iowa Dem Contest A Three-Way Tie

A new Washington Post/ABC News poll shows the Iowa caucus to be a three-way tie on the Democratic side: Obama 27%, Clinton 26%, Edwards 26%, followed by Bill Richardson at 11%. While 36% of respondents say Hillary Clinton is the strongest leader, and 50% say she has the best experience to be president, Obama leads in other categories: 30% say he is the most honest and trustworthy, 26% say he is the closest to them on the issues. Obama and Edwards are tied at 33% each for "most likeable," with Hillary a distant third at 14%.

McCain Supporting New, Enforcement-Only Immigration Bill

After his serious defeat passing an immigration bill in the Senate, John McCain is now supporting a new bill that does not contain a guest-worker program or other provisions that critics derided as amnesty. Instead, this bill is focused entirely on enforcement and border security — just the sort of issues that the GOP base has valued. "The failure of the Senate to pass comprehensive immigration was a huge disappointment," McCain said in a statement. "Although we must move forward with other issues, we can show the American people that we are serious about securing our nation's border."

Thompson Not Pulling Too Many Donors From Other Candidates

An analysis of Fred Thompson's tax fillings show that the vast majority of his donors are contributing for the first time this cycle and therefore his late entry – or rather, non-entry – to the race hasn't pulled donors away from the declared candidates as some had feared, the New York Times reports. Thompson raised at least $134,000 from people who had given to Mitt Romney; at least $88,000 from people who gave to John McCain, and at least $74,000 from Rudy Giuliani's donors.

Gingrich: War On Terror Is "Phony"

Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich chastised recent Republican stewardship of the country, saying that the Bush Administration is waging a "phony war" on terrorism while the most effective strategy would be reducing dependence on foreign oil. "None of you should believe we are winning this war," Gingrich said to a gathering of conservative college students. "We were in charge for six years," he said, referring to the recent period when the GOP controlled the White House and both houses of Congress. "I don't think you can look and say that was a great success."

Hagel: What's My Party Again?

Chuck Hagel (R-NE) and a group of other senators including Barbara Boxer (D-CA) and Arlen Spector (R-PA) held a book release party for their colleague Joe Biden, whose book Promises to Keep just hit the shelves. Hagel, who was Biden's pick when he responded to a question at the last debate about which Republican could be his running mate, addressed the largely Democratic crowd and perhaps fell victim to osmosis. "Hell, I don't know what party I belong to any more," Hagel joked.

Huckabee Releases YouTube In Support Of YouTube Debate

Mike Huckabee's campaign posted a video of the candidate standing in front of what appears to be a soy bean field, encouraging his rivals to join the YouTube debate. "Personally, I'm in ... Yeah, it may be a little different, but you know what? This campaign oughtta be different. It oughtta be different than the same old tired worn out talking about things that consultants have written, and talking about things that the American people want to talk about," Huckabee says.



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1924 Comments

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Hell, if I'm TOm Tancredo, I'm awed that any Pakistani official knows who the f!@k I am.

Then again, I guess the Arab media might have felt obliged to report on his bomb Mecca approach to national security.

Posted by Madorsky
August 3, 2007 9:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
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Boy, first Dodd attacks Obama and now Pakistan.

Who's next?

Carrot Top?

thosethingswesay.blogspot.com

Posted by destor23
August 3, 2007 9:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
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Polls in the last week show Obama tied for the lead or leading in Iowa, NH, and SC.

Man, that Obama just can't seem to keep his foot out of his mouth! All those gaffes we keep hearing about are just killing him, obviously.

Heh.

Seriously though, its just one poll (for each state), so it's nothing to get too excited about. But the notion that his campaign is somehow falling apart is vastly overstated by those who favor another candidate. Right now, he's still trending up in national polls, and there's some very early indicators that he just might be surging in the first 3 primary states.

Posted by mopper8
August 3, 2007 10:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
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Senator Obama has displayed a stunning lack of sophistication with regard to some issues—including his claim that conducting operations against the rogue elements of Al Qaeda and the Taliban on sovereign foreign soil, in anticipation of an attack or as a purely defensive measure—is a reasonable response to a perceived threat. Yet, each time he speaks this way, Senator Clinton seems to take her rhetoric to the next level.

As a former active duty and reserve component US Army officer, I am in awe of her claim that the use of tactical and strategic nuclear weapons against targets in the tribal areas of Pakistan along its border with Afghanistan is 'not off the table' and could be, in any manner, construed as a reasonable response or a meaningful deterrent to forces operating against ours from such locations. No competent component commander would ever request the release of a nuclear package in such a geographic area, against irregular forces essentially 'embedded' among civilians, for ANY reason. A newly commissioned second lieutenant realizes this: why can't a US Senator and the wife of a past President understand how completely insane such a position is?

We have a vast array of economic, political and appropriate military responses to issues such as this. Even discussing a 'nuclear option' in such circumstances is simply crazy. Secretary Gates, Chairman Pace and Army Chief of Staff Casey must be shaking their heads in utter amazement. Statements like hers completely undermine her otherwise reasonable complaints regarding military planning with regard to withdrawing our forces from Iraq.

As each day passes, it seems that neither of these candidates is ready for prime-time! And I thought—and, of course, to some degree still do—that the field of largely crazy Republican candidates had a lock on stupidity…

Posted by Michael Lafferty
August 3, 2007 10:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
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Far be it from me to defend Senator Clinton, but the fact that she would not disavow the use of nuclear weapons does not mean that she would consider using them. She just doesn't want to limit her negotiations by admitting publicly that she won't use them.

Posted by goethean
August 3, 2007 10:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
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"As a former active duty and reserve component US Army officer, I am in awe of her claim that the use of tactical and strategic nuclear weapons against targets in the tribal areas of Pakistan along its border with Afghanistan is 'not off the table' and could be, in any manner"

I am in awe of your comment that is long and thoughtful yet completely wrong on what Hillary said.

Hillary:

"QUESTION: Senator Clinton, Senator Obama today said that the use of nuclear weapons would be off the table in Afghanistan or Pakistan. I'm wondering if you agree with that.

CLINTON: Well, I'm not going to answer hypotheticals. But let's find Osama bin Laden and his leadership first.

And I think that presidents should be very careful at all times in discussing the use or non-use of nuclear weapons. Presidents, since the Cold War, have used nuclear deterrence to keep the peace. And I don't believe that any president should make any blanket statements with respect to the use or non-use of nuclear weapons.

But I think we'll leave it at that, because I don't know the circumstances in which he was responding."

A reporter asked if "nuclear weapons would be off the table in Afghanistan or Pakistan" and Hillary said "I'm not going to answer hypotheticals."

You:
"I am in awe of her claim that the use of tactical and strategic nuclear weapons against targets in the tribal areas of Pakistan along its border with Afghanistan is 'not off the table'"

Hillary didn't say that. When asked by a reporter if "nuclear weapons would be off the table in Afghanistan or Pakistan" she said "I'm not going to answer hypotheticals." So the rest of your comment is based on your wrong idea of what she said. Pretty much rendering it meaningless.

You could argue that well it was in the context of what Obama said. You could but you'd be wrong again.

Hillary:
"But I think we'll leave it at that, because I don't know the circumstances in which he was responding"

Hillary says her comment has nothing to do with what Obama said.

In the middle of Hillary's comment she says "Presidents, since the Cold War, have used nuclear deterrence to keep the peace." There are specific US policies that have been used by "Presidents, since the Cold War." Presidents don't get to make up new ones at a press conference. In that context Hillary says she would follow US policy. The same thing presidents since the cold war have done.

U.S. Nuclear Policy: "Negative Security Assurances"
http://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/negsec.asp

Posted by hadenough
August 3, 2007 10:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
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I hope these state-focused polls offset the Republican pundit/Hillary machine chorus that Obama is losing ground to Hillary's inevitability.

Posted by party-of-one
August 3, 2007 10:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
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Was our media always Royalist, or did this somehow happen in the last thirty years or so? I'm convinced that they'll always tacitly support a Bush or a Clinton, just because they already know--or think they know--how to tell those stories.

I hope Obama sticks it in their collective ear.

Posted by dajafi
August 3, 2007 10:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
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I am in awe of her claim that the use of tactical and strategic nuclear weapons against targets in the tribal areas of Pakistan along its border with Afghanistan is 'not off the table' and could be, in any manner, construed as a reasonable response or a meaningful deterrent to forces operating against ours from such locations. No competent component commander would ever request the release of a nuclear package in such a geographic area, against irregular forces essentially 'embedded' among civilians, for ANY reason.

What you are observing about HRClinton is her propensity to do and or say whatever is politically expedient, without regard for the nation. Hillary voted for the war because it would further her aspirations to be President by demonstrating she was a warhawk despite her gender. She did not consider how that vote would result in Americans dying. She also ratcheted up this FP debate to show that she had more 'experience and sophisticated' that the 'naive and irresponsible' Barack. What should be becoming increaslingly clear, is that she once again will say whatever is politically expedient in hope of gaining political points.

Hillar is not concerned about this country...her response to Barack is completely irresponsible. Where is her comprehensive strategy for Foreiegn Policy. She has none. Barack gave a very strong and impressive 5 point policy plan. Hunting down terrorists was a very small piece of it. Yet, Hillary chooses once again to escalate a war of words as she hopes to gain in the polls from it. NOT deliver a comprehensive strategy in the best interest of America. Barack is gaining on her in the polls in IA, NH and SC...so HRC's response is to use this countrys FP as a way to gain an advantage for her not move this country forward. She is irresponsible beyond belief.

Hillary has been talking about using nuclear options when it comes to Iran for well over a year, and not once has that stance been called into question. All it did was burnish her warhawk credentials.  So why would she stop now when she beleives she has a political advantage to continue her  wrmongering and saber rattling speeches.?

Posted by glissade
August 3, 2007 10:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
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but the fact that she would not disavow the use of nuclear weapons does not mean that she would consider using them

Based on how HRC consistently talks about using nuclear weapons against Iran..I would say it certainly does mean that.

"We cannot and should not — must not — permit Iran to build or acquire nuclear weapons," Clinton said in a speech before a capacity crowd in Richardson Auditorium. (See full text.) "In order to prevent that from occurring, we must have more support vigorously and publicly expressed by China and Russia, and we must move as quickly as feasible for sanctions in the United Nations."

snip

Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton last night criticized the Bush administration for its response to Iran's nuclear program, saying it had chosen to "downplay" the crisis over the past several years.

In a speech at Princeton University, Mrs. Clinton, a New York Democrat, joined the Bush administration's call for sanctions against Iran, and also said that the threat of military action against nuclear sites should not be ruled out.

snip

Israel, however, continues to develop a substantial nuclear arsenal, and in 2000 the BBC (British Broadcasting Corporation) reported that Israel has most likely produced enough plutonium to make up to 200 nuclear weapons. So, it is safe to say that Israel's bomb building techniques are light years ahead of Iran's dismal nuclear program. Yet the major U.S. ally in the Middle East still won't admit they have capacity to produce such deadly weapons.

And while AIPAC and Israel pressure the U.S. government to force the Iran issue to the U.N. Security Council, Israel itself stands in violation of numerous U.N. Resolutions dealing with the occupied territories of Palestine, including U.N. Resolution 1402, which demands that Israel withdraw its military from all Palestinian cities at once.

As the top Democratic recipient of pro-Israel funds for the 2006 election cycle thus far, pocketing over $58,000 as of October 31 last year, Senator Clinton now has Iran in her cross-hairs.

Posted by glissade
August 3, 2007 10:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
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Well one can hardly blame Pakistani officials from criticizing Obama after he said he bomb their country. It is probably very good domestic politics for them to bash Obama, and poor politics to cooperate with him now. That's why it's irresponsible to use volatile countries like Pakistan as a political prop.

Posted by AJ MA
August 3, 2007 10:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
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With the fund raising totals and all the positive polls for Obama this week, it’s simply not accurate and frankly irresponsible to label HRC the ‘front runner’ as CNN and other networks continue to do. What's up with that?

Posted by westbury
August 3, 2007 11:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
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Increasingly I am concerned about the Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton (with Jeb in the wings)phenomenon. Although party affiliation changes, basic policies do not. Vested interests retain their influence with each rotation. Obama as an honest-broker with fresh eyes, new ideas, and the charisma to bridge divisions and lead the nation is undoubtedly very threatening, not in the 30-year script. There is a burgeoning sense of need for fundamental change that the MSM can try to counter now, but soon will have not choice but to acknowledge.

Posted by party-of-one
August 3, 2007 11:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
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It's August, I'm starting to agree with Newt, definitely time for a long VACATION:

EC reports: "Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich chastised recent Republican stewardship of the country, saying that the Bush Administration is waging a 'phony war' on terrorism while the most effective strategy would be reducing dependence on foreign oil. "

My only edit would be deleting "foreign," so we don't turn National Wilderness Areas, Forests, Parks and coastal areas into Exxon oil fields.

Posted by party-of-one
August 3, 2007 11:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
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Dodd needs to quit saying "here".

Posted by hrebendorf
August 3, 2007 11:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
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Now is that the "since Cold War" nuclear policy or the one Bush has been apparently trying to alter. Bush has proposed a change that there could be a nuclear response to WMD of a chemical or biological nature. That is a change from the older policy.

So which is Hillary supporting?

Posted by stlounick
August 3, 2007 11:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
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Meh, let them. So long as Obama's apparent rise in the first 3 primary states is not illusory, and continues to show up in polls, let them call her the front-runner. It would only make primary victories that much more played up should they actually happen.

I have to say, at first I thought Edwards would benefit from not being involved what seemed to be a minor spat between two candidates, but now, instead, what it seems like this is the campaign and Edwards just isn't a part of it. He needs to make his voice heard, pronto. He's getting drowned out.

Posted by mopper8
August 3, 2007 11:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
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I understand the risks of a military strike on Pakistan soil and how the Pakistanis might oppose that. I am a bit troubled though that we are paying Musharaff billions for his assistance and yet we have experienced a build-up of Taliban and al Queda forces in these tribal areas. One has to question exactly what America is receiving for the money being spent.

Do you advocate cutting this aid to Pakistan or do you view it as payment for securing their nuclear weapons from their own extremists? Also, do you think there is a heightened risk to Americans and American interests by continuing to leave the ungovernable tribal regions in peace while they provide a safe haven to the Taliban and to al Queda?

I just don't believe there are easy answers to the present situation. But I would like to hear more of your views.

Posted by stlounick
August 3, 2007 11:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
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I have strong doubts about the Iowa poll. It is not clear to me they polled likely caucus goers. Just this week there was a poll showing Edwards ahead. I still think Edwards is probably ahead among people likely to vote in the caucus.

Posted by Miri11
August 3, 2007 11:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
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Well, its hard to say for sure, but their screening says 50% of their respondents are self-reportedly "certain to attend" and 50% are self-reportedly "likely" to attend, and 100% of them would self-reportedly attend if the caucuses were held today.

That's a pretty solid screen. 68% had already attended a caucus before.

Posted by mopper8
August 3, 2007 11:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
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It would be nice to see the break out of the 68% who have gone before compared to the 32% that haven't. Obama has been in third in Iowa in the last three polls, with Edwards leading in one and Hillary in the other, so without knowing enough to compare the credibility of any of them, I think we have to rate it as a toss-up. Especially given that there are five months left of campaigning

Posted by AJ MA
August 3, 2007 11:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
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Maybe the fact that she either leads or is tied for the lead in every early primary state, including now Iowa, plus the fact that she leads nationally by an average of nearly 20 points. That seems to verify frontrunner status to me.

Posted by cjw779
August 3, 2007 11:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
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The Iowa caucuses are always "gamed" to produce a result desired by the party movers in Iowa. They are not a voting process, but a game process. So, polls are not very good at predicting the results there. Then, there is the problem that the caucuses are held in the dead of winter, so the weather is a major player in who actually attends them, and only those who attend have any say in the results. That say is limited by them having to follow the directions of the local party hacks once they arrive at the caucus. It is a weird process for a democracy.

Hoppy in Sacramento

Posted by hoppycalif2
August 3, 2007 11:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
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"Senator Obama has displayed a stunning lack of sophistication with regard to some issues—including his claim that conducting operations against the rogue elements of Al Qaeda and the Taliban on sovereign foreign soil, in anticipation of an attack or as a purely defensive measure—is a reasonable response to a perceived threat."

I think I disagree with you on this point. I understand that military intervention in Pakistan's tribal areas risks destabilizing the Pakistani government, but how is that different from what is happening right now in Pakistan? Musharraf's reluctance to challenge militant Taliban and Al Qaeda sypathizers has allowed them to destabilize the regime anyway.

Obama's threat of limited military intervention may actually help Musharaff, allowing him to rhetorically defend Pakistani sovereignty (and distance himself from the US). It also allows him to argue taht pacifying the tribal areas (or at least expelling the Taliban and AQ) is essential to preserving Pakistani sovereignty (if we don't do it, the Americans will!)

Posted by Chesire111
August 3, 2007 11:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
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I wanna see a O'Reilly and Hannity do a tag team on Anne Coulter.

These people should be in the porn Industry not in the news industry,...

Daily Kos has O'reilly's panties in such a bind, it's too ironic to see him describe how hateful it is. Uh the Irony of it all! Dodd stuck it to him like a champ.

Posted by cevrero
August 3, 2007 11:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
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The best estimates of her national lead are actually only ~12-13 points.

Posted by mopper8
August 3, 2007 11:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
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You are so right hrebendorf! What's with that? I've never heard a speech pattern like that before. Distinctive to Connecticut?

Posted by party-of-one
August 3, 2007 11:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
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How folks in Iowa and New Hampshire differ from the majority of most Americans is that they have personally connected with and seen Obama, Edwards and Clinton constantly. The fact that Clinton is not the front runner in these states is very interesting in this context. At any rate, I am delighted to see us discussing policy (Obama's foreign policy). Most of will vote the same way in November. I hope we can pressure all the Democrat candidates into as progessive a position as possible so that we end up with one we all can happily vote for.

Posted by AnnS
August 3, 2007 12:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
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Not ruling out military action is not the same as advocating nuking Iran so your headline to your quotes is highly misleading.

Posted by AJM
August 3, 2007 12:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
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I admire Dodd for going into the "Spin Zone", and would love to see O'Reilly put in his place. Dodd stood up to him, but never really landed a punch. Overall not very effective.

Posted by party-of-one
August 3, 2007 12:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
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"So which is Hillary supporting?"

Oh dear it's all so confusing I don't know what to think. This is all so confusing:
"CLINTON: Well, I'm not going to answer hypotheticals. But let's find Osama bin Laden and his leadership first."

See. So confusing. And then it gets trickier.

"or the one Bush has been apparently trying to alter"

If bush is trying to "alter" US nuke policy that would mean he hasn't yet. Right? Keep trying.

Posted by hadenough
August 3, 2007 12:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
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Good post. I agree, as long as Obama or Edwards comes out the nominee. I could never vote for or trust Hillary as president. If the Democrats nominate her, and the Republican nominee is unacceptable, I will get behind a third party movement.

Posted by party-of-one
August 3, 2007 12:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
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While I agree with the overall sentiment, most polls actually select from a much wider base than the one being reported (which specifically targeted likely caucus goers). Some sample simply "Democrats" or "Democratic voters" or "Likely Democratic voters".

If you're looking for a poll that screens for only those voters who've voted in past primary caucuses, you're most likely not gonna find it. I haven't seen one yet. (not to mention with political engagement at an all-time high in this election, we should expect a lot of 1st time caucus goers and, what's more, while 68% self-report as having been to one before, only 50% self-report as "certain" to go. Which means at least 18% are reporting that, while they've been to caucuses before, they're only "likely", not "certain" to go this time around.)

Basically, that's about as strict a screen as you can expect. Other polls are only going to be more lax, not less. That doesn't mean its necessarily right. Even when you consider MOE stuff, there's still a 5% chance the "real" breakdown is outside the MOE. And within this poll itself, all 3 candidates' support broke down in the 50-60% range in terms of having "solidified" that vote.

And lastly, the Iowa caucuses are structured in such a way that a candidate could go in with literally 50% of the caucus goers all to his/her self and still lose, if the support is spread too thin in too many counties that it gets eaten up by other candidates or not counted at all.

So, its crazy to read much of anything into this (or any) single poll.

However, it also highlights how silly it is to read too much into all the other polls that say Hillary is leading, or Edwards is leading, that Obama is crashing and burning, or whatever.

Oh, and of course, there's this:

A pollster may not want to "screen" so that the size of their likely voter matches the exact level of turnout. Most campaign pollsters I have worked with prefer to shoot for a slightly more expansive universe, both to capture those genuinely uncertain about whether they will vote and to account for the presumption that "refusals" (those who hang up on their own before answering any questions) are more likely to be non-voters.

From a good (and timely!) article on the subject from the mystery pollster, here

Posted by mopper8
August 3, 2007 12:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
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You're just simply going to have to be more coherent. If the US nuclear policy is known, then Hillary should be free to discuss it. Right? There would be no reason for coyness.

Drop the "keep trying" nonsense. Since Bush brought up the change in 2002-2003 and then went silent, simply does not mean that we know one way or the other what Bush has decided. Now, do we? It would be interesting to have the candidates respond on this. Agree or disagree?

Posted by stlounick
August 3, 2007 12:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
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If the Democrats nominate her, and the Republican nominee is unacceptable, I will get behind a third party movement.

In the event of such a calamity, I predict an all-time record vote for Mickey Mouse.

Come to think of it, Mickey might win if they count the votes.

Best, Terry

Posted by terryhallinan
August 3, 2007 12:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
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Hillary is all for the authority to use nuclear weapons, trusting that they will never be used. Hmmm a familiar ring to that logic. She will definitely be against use of tactical nuclear weapons if someone else is strongly for it and the polls show the public is not. Clearer?

Posted by party-of-one
August 3, 2007 12:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
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Can Mickey have a third term? hehe

Posted by party-of-one
August 3, 2007 12:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
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What would it take to get Hagel to flip parties when Lieberman tries to give the Senate to the Republicans?

Posted by whit
August 3, 2007 12:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
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the fact that she would not disavow the use of nuclear weapons does not mean that she would consider using them.

wait, she won't disavow using them, but according to you she wouldn't consider using them. this is gobbledegook. willl she consider using nukes against AQ? if no, then she'd disavow them. it seems hillary's criticism is that obama shouldn't say anything. how does her position differ from obama's regarding going after al qaeda in pakistan? it doesn't except she wouldn't preclude using nukes. that makes her responsible?

Posted by benjoya
August 3, 2007 12:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
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Just as little historical/military aside, why are these areas in Pakistan known as "tribal autonomous" areas? It is because no flatlanders have ever been able to go up there and get a military advantage over these tribesmen on their own home turf, not the British Empire, not the Pakistani governments since 1948.

It would be an interesting piece of historical trivia as to whether the Mughal rulers of Western India around 1600 were able to gain this military victory; I believe the other major historical invasions in the area, Alexander the Great and the Mongols and Mongol successors like Tamerlane all bypassed this particular bit of badlands to focus on more lucrative provinces in the general region.

It is pretty presumptuous to think that our over-stretched, corruptly funded & supplied armed forces are going to be able to do it just like that ... maybe they can, but I and a bunch of 2nd lieutenants would like to see the exact plans ...

Posted by featherfamily
August 3, 2007 12:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
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"If the US nuclear policy is known"

If it is known? Good Gravy!

Hillary was asked to comment on what Obama said regarding nukes. She said no thanks.

Then she said she would do what presidents have done since the cold war. Which is follow established US nuke policy. The same public policy that is widley known and available.

Good Gravy!

Never mind.

Posted by hadenough
August 3, 2007 1:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
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it seems hillary's criticism is that obama shouldn't say anything.

You hit the nail on the head.

When asked whether or not one is willing to meet with enemy heads of state, one should not answer "yes" or "no", one should answer:

"I won't promise to, but I won't rule it out. I might, but then I might not. I'll do some other stuff not totally germane to the question, but see, here's the thing: if I talk to these people, then they might mention it to their constituencies, and I don't want that. So there's that."

That's Presidential.

And of course, as Biden noted, you're not supposed to say you'd make moves inside Pakistan, you're just supposed to do it. Don't actually let the American public know your position on these things. Its more a of wink-wink, trust-me-I'm-good sort of deal.

And lastly, even if you're not willing to use nuclear weapons in ways that are completely stupid and ill-conceived, you should never actually say that. You should say "nuclear weapons are very dangerous and we hope to never have to use them blah blah blah, but nothing is ever off the table"

The "Presidential" answer is to give no answer at all. To give no positive statement of your own beliefs. Just vague nothings that convey no information except that maybe you're tough.

Thankfully, one candidate is not engaging in such rhetorical nonsense.

Posted by mopper8
August 3, 2007 1:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
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what's 'irresponsible' is propping up military dictatorships (like pakistan) that give safe harbor to al qaeda/bin laden and proliferate nuclear weapons technologies. musharaff is not the solution to pakistan's volatility. if anything, he's partly the source of pakistan's volatility.

Posted by zk0sm0
August 3, 2007 3:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
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and still, national polls are absolutely uselss - they indicate nothing of any real value.

Posted by zk0sm0
August 3, 2007 3:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
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