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Obama Returning Hsu's Money

By Greg Sargent - August 30, 2007, 5:25PM

The Obama campaign -- like just about every other Democrat in our fair galaxy -- is returning contributions it got from Norman Hsu, the big-time fundraiser for Hillary and other Dems who, it turns out, is a fugitive on a fraud rap. Obama spokesperson Bill Burton sends over the following statement:

We have given the $7,000 in contributions from Hsu to charity and sent a letter to the Paws to affirm that the contribution they gave were from their own funds and not those of others.

The question now facing Obama and Hillary and many others is whether to give back money that was bundled by Hsu -- such as the Paws contribution referenced above. Sending this letter to the Paws could end up solving this problem. A source with knowledge of such matters tells me that if the Paws were to falsely affirm that the contribution was theirs they could be held legally liable for aiding in the falsification of an FEC report.

Meanwhile, Hillary, who's also agreed to return Hsu's money, if not the cash bundled by him, has been getting asked about the controversy all day, and Dem candidates who have received his money have scrambled to unload it. We'll share one Hillary quote:

"We have a vetting process," Clinton said in a telephone interview with the Globe. "It didn't work on this one instance apparently for any of us. There were many, many people receiving his contributions, but nobody knew there was an issue."

...and then there's also this absolutely wonderful pushback from New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer, who defended Hillary at a press conference today as follows:

"Is Sen Clinton's campaign or any campaign supposed to doing a better job than the authorities of California who theoretically had an open warrant for this guy and didn't do anything? Come on, guys. Let's get real."

Get real, indeed. The bottom line is that there's something deeply silly about these controversies, which despite all the heavy breathing about dark criminal conspiracies are all too often at bottom really about clerical errors.

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I didn't expect anything else from Senator Obama. This damage has been done to Hillary Clinton, the bloom is off the rose. The guy is a fundraiser for Hillary Clinton. The more things "chance" the more they stay the same.

Posted by IloveDemsNReps
August 30, 2007 5:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
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Of course obama knew this guy was wanted in calf. That's why obama took the dirty cash. That just the way he is. Criminals stick together.

Posted by hadenough
August 30, 2007 5:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
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*Ignores the vapid comment by hadenough*

Get real, indeed. The bottom line is that there's something deeply silly about these controversies, which despite all the heavy breathing about dark criminal conspiracies are all too often at bottom really about clerical errors.

While I agree that there is something deeply silly about holding the candidates responsible for these types of situations (particularly when you consider the number of total donors they are dealing with) these are not "silly controversies." They are always wake up calls for campaign finance reform, and how we get the average American back in the game, it's certainly not by funnelling campaign contributions through them.

Posted by slcathena
August 30, 2007 6:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
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Uhh. Maybe TPM could be a little more clear that the Clinton campaign returned Hsu's money long before Obama's did.

It was Obama who "also" returned the money, after everyone else in the Democratic Party had already announced.

Posted by hwc
August 30, 2007 6:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
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hwc wrote on August 30, 2007 6:28 PM:
Uhh. Maybe TPM could be a little more clear that the Clinton campaign returned Hsu's money long before Obama's did.

It was Obama who "also" returned the money, after everyone else in the Democratic Party had already announced.


That is a great point. There were several hours difference.

Now----please apply the same principle to the differences regarding how long it took for Hillary to have second thoughts about the war in Iraq.

Posted by kjoe
August 30, 2007 7:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
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Lisa Myers did her hit job on Senator Clinton on the evening news. Someone should be cleaning up after Lisa with those important little things called "facts."

Posted by Sally
August 30, 2007 7:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
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Just LOOK at the headlines to the two separate pieces in TPM.

The one regarding Hillary Clinton reads: "Hillary Camp Divesting Money From Fugitive Donor"

The one regarding Barack Obama reads: "Obama Returning Hsu's Money"

NO MENTION in the Obama headline about a "fugitive" donor.

Doesn't TPM think that is playing it a tad UNFAIR?

You cannot say that words do not matter; the use of certain words is calculated to create certain impressions, and I think the difference in the two headlines could not be a clearer example of unfairness to Hillary.

She and Obama BOTH gave the money back to the SAME person -- although Hillary did it FIRST.

Yet, she is tarnished with connections to a "fugitive" donor, and Obama is not.

Posted by poetry
August 30, 2007 7:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
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Poetry, that only works for someone who somehow manages to scroll down and only read the headlines, which would be nearly impossible.

TPM assumes some basic familiarity with current political news on the site; otherwise, why would anyone come here? Everyone here now knows who Hsu is.

Hillary might have given the money back first by a couple hours, which is obviously meaningless, but Hsu's money went directly to her campaign and not to a pre-campaign PAC, and Hsu is a big donor/bundler for HER. Don't try to work the refs to hide the ball for you is such an obvious way.

Posted by ohiomeister
August 30, 2007 7:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
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I would be inclined to dismiss this if I hadn't read to the end of the NY TIMES story where it says that Senator Clinton obtained a
$960,000 earmark for the New College where Hsu was a trustee (she also attended the banquet in his honor). This smacks of the legal kind of campaign cash for earmarks that I despise! Hsu was seeking the prestige of being a trustee who could bring in money. His cash to Senator Cliunton expediated it. It is so shabby, especial;ly since it was my money (I pay taxes) that she was rewarding him with.
\

Posted by anns
August 30, 2007 8:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
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You obviously aren't that familiar with New College.

No Democrat would complain about an earmark grant to fund underprivledged city students at New College.

New College's biggest donor is Eugene Lang. Do a Google search on Eugene Lang or look at one of his other foundations:

http://www.ihad.org/

Lang is a major proponent of colleges incorporating public service into their curriculum:

http://www.projectpericles.org/

If people would stop hatin' on the Clintons so much, they might learn something about progressive causes in the United States.

Posted by hwc
August 30, 2007 8:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
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"ohiomeister wrote on August 30, 2007 7:53 PM:
Poetry, that only works for someone who somehow manages to scroll down and only read the headlines, which would be nearly impossible."

I was wondering also. Let me make sure I understand: You think 'Obama Camp Divesting Money From Fugitive Donor' would be just fine for this post?

Have I got that right?

Posted by hadenough
August 30, 2007 8:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
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I have no problem with limited earmarks to state colleges(I work at a New York Community College so I walk the walk). I do object to the undemocratic process of earmarks to which has no oversight. Senator Clinton attended the banquet honoring Hsu when the earmark was given. Students from low income backgrounds(we no longer use the word "underprivileged by the way because of its elitist context but I guess you wouldn't know that) have many other avenues open to them, even the woefully underfunded but quintessentally democratic and wonderful community and four year colleges of NY State. Senator Clinton should have been fighting for funding for those rather than using tax payers' money to puff up an outlaw albeit rich donor at a private institution.

Posted by anns
August 30, 2007 8:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
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I have no problem with limited earmarks to state colleges(I work at a New York Community College so I walk the walk). I do object to the undemocratic process of earmarks to which has no oversight. Senator Clinton attended the banquet honoring Hsu when the earmark was given. Students from low income backgrounds(we no longer use the word "underprivileged by the way because of its elitist context but I guess you wouldn't know that) have many other avenues open to them, even the woefully underfunded but quintessentally democratic and wonderful community and four year colleges of NY State. Senator Clinton should have been fighting for funding for those rather than using tax payers' money to puff up an outlaw albeit rich donor at a private institution.
ps. I have an Ivy League degree and yes, you I do know what the New School (not College as you mistakenly wrote) is. I

Posted by anns
August 30, 2007 9:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
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I forgot. It's the New School, not the New College. So I guess you are not familiar with it. I am.

Posted by anns
August 30, 2007 9:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
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Do we know yet whether Hsu is still in the USA and whether he is turning himself in for the 3 year prison term? Or has he fled the country like 126 Bill Clinton donors did in the 90's?

How did he get the New School trusteeship? Do they not run any background checks? Bernard Schwartz is also a trustee and he was head of Loral, which was a name from the '96 Clinton donor scandals. Coincidence.

YES Clinton is suspect! First because of the '96 scandals and second because these foreign nationals tend to flee the country when they're in hot water. So, they should get extra special scrutiny and a mailman connected to one of them making maximum contributions for 2 years should have raised eyebrows in the Clinton campaign. And they would have found out Hsu was a fugitive as quickly (1 day after the initial story in the WSJ) as the LA Times found it out. But go back to '92 and you'll find that every scandal got the lie, stall, play dumb treatment.

Posted by Karen
August 30, 2007 9:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
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If everyone knew who Hsu was, how come Obama accepted his money?

And I still say that if Mr. Hsu is a "fugitive" donor when he gives money to Hillary, he is STILL a FUGITIVE DONOR when he gives money to Obama.

The headline is there to prejudice the reader and if you don't accept that, there is no point is discussing anything with you.

Posted by poetry
August 30, 2007 9:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
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Senator Clinton is the senator for New York.

The New School is a very prestigious New York City college that any New York senator would be bound to help.

Former Senator Bob Kerrey (a Democrat), from Nebraska, is president at The New School.

Hillary Clinton won a grant (call it an "earmark") for The New School because that's what New York senators do.

The $950,000 earmark provided for a mentoring program for disadvantaged city youths at the college.

Posted by poetry
August 30, 2007 10:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
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"Hillary returned the money long before Obama"

A couple hours = long before?

Also this guy wasn't holding huge fundraising galas for Obama, and Obama wasn't responsible for securing earmarks for Hsu's employer.

Fellow Democrats, Hillary Clinton has her paws all up in some nasty criminal connections and she'll be torn apart in the general election, and she'll deserve it. She's never accomplished anything, every important determination she's made has been wrong. She's running on experience and doesn't even have any of that.

She's even making me and several Democrats I know think of voting Republican.

Posted by Brendan
August 30, 2007 10:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
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There is great wealth in New York City but there is also great poverty in New York City.

Are your hearts so cold that you think it is WRONG to obtain a government grant to allow poor and disadvantaged New York City kids to have a shot at succeeding in college?

Good grief, get a grip.

Hillary Clinton, as New York's senator, got some money to help poor kids rise above their environment.

She got a grant for The New School.

I can't think of many things that are a better use of our tax dollars than helping kids -- who face a pretty bleak future -- to overcome that handicap and succeed in life.

Posted by poetry
August 30, 2007 10:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
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"Brendan wrote on August 30, 2007 10:37 PM:

She's even making me and several Democrats I know think of voting Republican."

Good do us all a favor. Tomorrow go downtown and register as what you are: a republican.

Posted by hadenough
August 30, 2007 10:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
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Just for accuracy, here. Obama as a presidential candidate has not received money from Hsu. His Hope Fund received $5,000 on 2/3/05 from Hsu and his Senate campaign received $2,000 from Hsu on 10-19-04.
Hillary Clinton has received $11,500 from Hsu since 1-12-07, $5,000 of which went to HillPAC.
I got these figures from the opensecrets site. Here's a puzzler: how one individual can give more than $4,600 to a candidate legally?----$11,500 minus $5,000 is $6,500.

There are around 50 entries showing Hsu donations back to the '04 cycle in which he really did spread around the money to democrats.

Posted by DonnaG
August 30, 2007 10:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
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Posted by wow gold
August 30, 2007 11:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
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Much ado about nothing.

Posted by Rich
August 30, 2007 11:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
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I see the Republican Trolls came out to play. If you are telling the truth, it will play out. I am not a Hillary fan, as I am sure hadenough would attest. That sounds a bit too made up. Unfortunately, it does underscore the point of what lengths Republicans will go to and how easy the sell would be with Hillary. That in a nutshell is the price tag her baggage carries.

Posted by Michael Caine
August 31, 2007 1:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
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Happily, Michael Caine, Americans aren't buying the rightwing troll crap - even when it's spouted by Obama's rather questionable supporters. Hillary's leading because most Democrats think she's a superb candidate and because, when all is said and done, Bill Clinton left office with the highest popularity rating in the 20th century.

And in the privacy of the voting booth, Americans are going to vote for the reality of the 90s over the rhetoric of the 90s, the orderliness of the Balkans campaign over the chaos of Iraq, rising wages and lower unemployment over stagnant wages and lost jobs, a balanced budget over an out of control deficit - there isn't a Republican around who can beat her.

Posted by lorelynn
August 31, 2007 2:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
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How many times did I hear that 3-4 years ago. Including the preamble of its inevitability. The only real Democrats that are spouting right-wing crap are Hillary's supporters.

They are the ones that claim that saying Hillary comes with baggage (kinda like Dean supporters were saying Kerry came with baggage) is mean-spirited. Every poll has her negatives consistently staying in the mid-40's +/- the poll's margin of error.

Yet, just like the Republicans were magically going to forget Kerry's protesting the Viet Nam war and the hard feelings caused by it among Viet Nam Vets. Hillary's backers think the Republicans are going to magically not make any of Hillary's baggage come back to energize their base.

The political landscape has changed from the '90s. A large portion of America has been calling for a change in the politics of the last decade. Nominating the Namesake of the Democratic standard bearer of the last decade of politics is not a change. It is just more of the same.

I swear, its like trying to explain to children who keep sticking their fingers in their ears and chanting la-la-la-la.

Be it the current Congress and its inability to stand up to Bush despite overwhelming data that near 70% of America wants them to do so.

Be it the 30% of ardent kool-aide drinking Bush supporters.

Or be it rational about all things but Hillary supporters.

They all seem determined to refuse to believe reality that is staring them in the face.

Democratic Congress critters you are the majority. You have the power and the mandate to say NO to President Bush!

Bush is the worst President in the history of the United States. He is driving you and the Republican Party into oblivion.

Hillary has an incredible amount baggage that will drag the ticket down all of the way to county elections. You can close your eyes, plug your ears and chant all you want but it is there and wishing will not make it go away.

Again, one need look no further in how this is spinning out of control. Brandon is not going to vote Republican. He is an ardent Kucinich supporter. He may flirt with the idea of voting for Ron Paul, may even do so in the Primaries. But come election time, he will vote for the Green Party.

anns, comes across as a Republican Troll, but the suspicion will take root in the very fertile soil that is the Clinton history.

Democrats will leap to her defense. Republicans will be blasting it 24/7. And Independents (40% of the voting populace) will look at it the same as they look at Sen. Craig.

After almost 20 years of rumors is the charge for real. It will split their vote and make an otherwise safe election, a squeaker. That will, in turn, make down the ticket elections all the harder.

Posted by Michael Caine
August 31, 2007 3:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
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Again. I gues because I work in the woefully underfunded New York state university system I cannot comprehend the idea that New York senators should be getting earmarks for "prestigeous" private universities. As a taxpayer who fundamentally belives in democracy, my taxes should go to public institutions. Believe me, the $950,000 would have gone a long way to funding nursing scholarships (we have a tremendous shortage here) rather than puffing up the resume of an outlaw criminal whom Clinton wanted to help look good.

Posted by AnnS
August 31, 2007 8:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
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Michael Caine makes good points about Clinton's baggage but it has to be noted that the aversion to the Clintons is NOT "meanspiritedness" or "Clinton-hating" or "right wing." That is Clinton spin and thats all it is. For 16 years we've gotten a steady diet of the Clintons using offense to defend their bad actions.

Carl Bernstein's book quotes Sen. Bill Bradley that Hillary Clinton told him she planned to "demonize" anyone in Congress who opposed her healthcare plan. In the spring of 1992, Hillary Clinton told Vanity Fair magazine that the reporters should be looking into "Bush's Jennifer."

She is as vicious and go-for-the jugular as politicians come and its on the public record. Her playing victim or her supporters claiming she's a victim is dishonest.

Personally, I am surprised to see liberal blogs rushing to defend her when there is so obviously more to come out about this story (and when the Clinton history has ALWAYS been to lie, stall and play dumb until the story dies down unless theres a semen-stained dress or a record of 2 official draft notices). I checked DailyHowler and MediaMatters and they both started defending Clinton with the first WSJ story and now they look like fools with the day later revelation that Hsu is a crook, a low life swindler, a fugitive. Someone like that gets access to the highest levels for money and the people who are disgusted and shocked by it are "right wing" according to the liberal blogs.

Posted by Karen
August 31, 2007 8:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
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ITs sad to see a progressive writer dismiss our legalized bribery system of financing campaign, the shadiness of which is the root cause of this and other violations of law and political morality, as merely a "clerical error." As if the lust for bundles of thousands of dollars from anyone who can put checks in an envelope is in and of itself not the problem.

And its not right to simply say "everyone does it" as Clinton spokester Donna Brazile indicated today will be their defense, because we need a nominee who will make campaign finance reform a priority and not simply a the punchline of snarky jokes.

Posted by desmoulins
August 31, 2007 9:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
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come on, is nobody going to make fun of anns for that trainwreck of a triple post halfway up the thread? s/he is in a big huff showing his/her worldliness and sophistication and can't operate the internet. internet forum, you disappoint me.

Posted by schwza
August 31, 2007 10:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
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The government grant to The New School was to set up a mentoring program to help disadvantaged New York City kids succeed in college. These are very poor kids who cannot afford to pay the fees to be a residential student at one of the state universities; these are kids who have to live at home and attend a college in the City.

These disadvantaged kids are the children of taxpayers just like you.

They may even be very talented kids whose talents and skills will be brought out at The New School.

And, I for one would prefer to help these inner city poor kids have a chance to make a success in life than to have them live lives of despair and unemployability.

Posted by poetry
August 31, 2007 10:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
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I have not yet seen an answer to my question above:

"If everyone knew who Hsu was, how come Obama accepted his money?"

Furthermore, how come the Obama camp first said they would NOT be returning Hsu's money and then later decided to do so?

Were the Obama people simply responding to pressure?

And as I asked, if it was so widely known that Mr. Hsu was a "fugitive," why did the Obama people accept Hsu's money in the first place?

BTW, the Obama camp returned $7,000 to Hsu, so I guess THEY believed he had given Barack Obama $7,000, even if you don't believe it.

Posted by poetry
August 31, 2007 11:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
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lorelynn @ 2:17 am: "...Americans are going to vote for the reality of the 90s over the rhetoric of the 90s, the orderliness of the Balkans campaign over the chaos of Iraq, rising wages and lower unemployment over stagnant wages and lost jobs, a balanced budget over an out of control deficit..."

So a vote for Hillary is really a vote for Bill? Will he be the puppetmaster behind the throne? Or is it that we are certain she has the same skills and strengths and interests as he?

Posted by stinger
August 31, 2007 11:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
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Dear Poetry,

I really wish you would stop using the word disadvantaged. It is so loaded, a real Barbara Bush word. Still, I don't want you to think I am busting your chops. I am passionate about excellent public education and don't think you quite get what I am saying. By draining public money from state schools, elite private universities, do hurt economically disadvantaged students.Also,
New York city has a tremendous number of mentoring programs, some of which I have supported fiancially. The problem with filtering the money through elite universities (although with all due repect the New School is a fine but not terrible elite school), we steer students away from public universities that are truly America's democratic institution. CUNY, the vehicle for social progress, cost nothing when it enabled my husband to attend college after working as a truck driver in the sixties. Now, it costs thousands of dollars and is becoming a middle class institution. The goal is to make higher ed accessible to all, not to steer a few students to private schools interested in tuition dollars. Think about it.

Posted by ahs@TC3.EDU
August 31, 2007 12:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
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Poetry,
re Obama getting money, too - thats the cover. If he only gave Clinton money, it would draw more attention than if he's a "major Democratic fundraiser."

I wonder who he DIDN'T give to, especially in California, or gave very minor amounts, because there's a nice possibility of a pardon deal: Schwarzenegger is term limited; likely next Governor is a Dem; the charges Hsu skipped on are state charges; new Governor gives Hsu a pardon, probably slipping it in with a hundred other pardons.

Posted by Karen
August 31, 2007 12:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
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I was quoting from The New York Times, which described the grant:

"Mrs. Clinton ... had secured a $950,000 earmark for a mentoring program at the college for disadvantaged city youths."

And, I did not describe The New School as "elite"; that is YOUR word, not mine.

The New School is a well-respected school that offers a wide variety of programs.

P.S. Please refrain from using Barbara Bush to chastise those with whom you disagree.

Posted by poetry
August 31, 2007 12:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
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Hint to some of the Sherlock Holmes posters here:

You might try applying your great investigative and research skills to Rudy Giuliani's life and political record -- or we could end up with Rudy as our president.

And I will tell you that no matter how bad SOME here may think a Hillary Clinton administration would be, a Rudy Giuliani administration would be far worse and MUCH more dangerous to our rights, freedoms and liberties.

Right now, Rudy seems to be the media's Untouchable Golden Boy. The media people have even decided Rudy's sordid personal life should be off limits. Yeah, the same crowd that drooled over Bill Clinton's private life for years now consider Rudy's disgusting private life off limits.

You might want to start with this link:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0212072giuliani1.html

And, see: "FLASHBACK: 1993 Rudy Campaign Internal Oppo Report Unearthed" at: http://electioncentral.tpmcafe.com/blog/electioncentral/2007/feb/12/flashback_1993_rudy_campaign_internal_oppo_report_unearthed

Posted by poetry
August 31, 2007 12:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
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Dear "ahs@TC3.EDU ":

Here is the link to The New York Times article in which the reporters describe The New School's grant as funding "a mentoring program at the college for disadvantaged city youths."

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/30/us/politics/30bundler.html?ex=1189051200&en=00ee337c9e083c5f&ei=5099&partner=TOPIXNEWS

You might want to take up your quarrel with them over the word "disadvantaged," or you could try writing to Barbara Bush.

Posted by poetry
August 31, 2007 1:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
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Hint to some of the Sherlock Holmes posters here:

You might try applying your great investigative and research skills to Rudy Giuliani's life and political record -- or we could end up with Rudy as our president.

Really? So now, if we want a choice other than Hillary, and give substantive evidenced reasons for it, we are automatically supporting Guiliani?

Fear mongering much?

Posted by Anonymous
August 31, 2007 7:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
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Here is my guess about Mr. Hsu, the guy who didn't seem to actually have physical businesses located at the addresses he put down on the donor forms, the guy who began throwing money around in a big way in 2003: I think Hsu was actually a lobbyist without the formality of registering as such, and was spreading and funneling money to achieve tariff relief to benefit certain foreign textile interests and perhaps certain allied U.S. interests.

For example, barriers to textile imports, especially from Asia, fell sharply after a new Tariff bill of circa 2004-2005. One result: Quaker Fabrics of Fall River, MA, an employer of 2,500 people in 2003 went from profits of 8 million in 2003 to a loss in 2005 of 25 million and a loss in 2006 of 38 million. This summer, this U.S. manufacturer had to give up and close, laying off their final 900 employees.

I haven't reseached that particulary tariff bill's history sufficiently to know how it came to be loaded with textile import tariff reductions.

But, I did find that Charles Schumer, senior senator from NY more recently sponsored four bills [all of which had one cosponsor, Hillary Clinton] which requested tariff relief on specific foreign textile products. Those bills [S3641, S3642, S3643, and S3644, all asking for tariff reductions on imported various cotton fabrics and yarns] along with eighteen other fabric tariff reduction bills have been challenged by a number of U.S. manufacturers who say that the tariff reductions offered by those bills would harm their 'Made in the USA' plants, by flooding the market with cheap textile goods.

Maybe these dots don't connect, but we will see. Something is awfully mysterious about Hsu.

Posted by DonnaG
September 1, 2007 2:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
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During the 2004 and 2005 Congressional sessions, the Congress was in the control of Republicans. The Republicans had a majority in both the House and senate; Bill Frist was majority leader in the senate and Denny Hastert was in charge in the House.

My understanding is that Hsu gave to Democrats (lots of Democrats), so maybe this particular issue has nothing to do with Hsu. In any event, whatever passed in the way of legislation in the years 2004-2005 should be laid at the door of the Republicans.

Posted by poetry
September 1, 2007 11:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
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Posted by wow power leveling
September 4, 2007 1:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
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Karen, the "defense" of Clinton is because right-wing reactionaries (17 posts on Hsu from Michelle Malkin so far. Abramoff? 2 in four years) are suggesting Clinton is complicit in a crime because of Hsu's donations. You just claimed that yourself. She is not.

Posted by August J. Pollak
September 7, 2007 10:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
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