Spokesman: Romney Not "Equating Or Comparing Anyone" When Holding "Obama Osama" Sign
As you may have seen today, TMZ.com has obtained two photos of Mitt Romney posing with a supporter in South Carolina. The supporter was holding a sign with the homemade writing, "NO TO OBAMA OSAMA AND CHELSEA'S MOMA" (sic). In the second photo, Romney is himself holding up the sign with the supporter.

This obviously invited the question: Was it appropriate for Mitt Romney to hold up a sign likening Barack Obama to the leader of an international terrorist network, responsible for bloody attacks upon the United States, apparently all based on his name? After all, what would the media reaction be if Barack Obama posed with a supporter who had a sign comparing President Bush to Adolf Hitler? The press would go nuts over it, surely, and rightly so.
Election Central contacted Romney spokesman Kevin Madden for comment, asking if it was appropriate for the candidate to hold the sign up with the woman. "The governor stopped briefly for a picture with a supporter who just happened to be holding their own sign with an alliterative play on words," Madden said, via e-mail. "I don’t think it was equating or comparing anyone."
Late Update: Photos added with the permission of TMZ.

Can't we all just leave Willard alone - he's just highlighting the dire need for a better education system here in the USA - especially in Republican areas of South Carolina - where standards in spelling and grammar have obviously deteriorated quite dramatically.
PKDU
July 21, 2007 10:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
[This is too easy...]
So when did Chelsie Clinton become leader of an international terrorist network?
July 21, 2007 10:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
"The governor stopped briefly for a picture with a supporter who just happened to be holding their own sign with an alliterative play on words,"
Kind of just ignored the other case where the candidate was holding the sign, huh? Or did they "just happen" to put it in his hands as the picture was taken?
d
July 21, 2007 10:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
What?
The sign referred to Chelsea's momma. That's Hillary. Besides, it didn't equate Hillary or Chelsea to anyone or anything. That reference was for Obama.
d
July 21, 2007 10:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
How did TMZ get these photos? Who sent them in?
Months ago, Rick Perlstein suggested that a suspect-conservative like Romney benefits from this sort of flap -- that he can say the liberal media is attacking his blunt conservatism.
It wouldn't be surprising if Romney's campaign released these photos.
July 21, 2007 11:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Shorter version: "Romney is a spineless, unprincipled jerk."
July 21, 2007 11:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well we all know since it was a republican supporter then it's just good natured hijinks.
If it were any of the Democratic Party contenders and a sign disparaging any republican was in the same room the print and broadcast media would be demanding that that Dem candidate repudiate it.
An aside to all you interns working for the print and broadcast media shills:
Aren't you ashamed of yourselves? Your parents struggled or you struggled to pay tuition to become a Bush republican prostitute?
July 21, 2007 11:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
"No to Mitt, Guilie, or McCain,
or anybody else who is insain" (sic)
July 21, 2007 11:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Careful, sam, you'll get Bill O'Riley accusing Josh of running a hate site.
July 21, 2007 11:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
All the better. This is precisely the type of thing that solidifies Romney with the very hard-core while alienating pretty much everyone else.
That is, this the type of thing that could win him the primary, and then not get any more votes in the general than he got in the primary, you know?
July 21, 2007 11:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
"anyone" would scan better than "anybody". Southerners may not know how to spell, but they've goth rhythm...
July 21, 2007 11:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
When did Chelsea take over the Museum of Modern Art?
July 22, 2007 12:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
WHO
CARES
July 22, 2007 12:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
Ben Goshi & I collaborated on DKos for the one question we would post to Romney:
http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2007/7/21/173623/077/64#c64
Some people say that this is exactly the kind of hate speech that foments the kind of environment where Senator Obama needs early Secret Service protection. You would agree with those people who disapprove of such hate speech, or do you endorse it and the danger it brings to people like Senator Obama?
July 22, 2007 1:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
Also, Kevin Madden doesn't appear to know what alliteration is.
July 22, 2007 1:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, come on, leave Mittens alone! Everyone knows that the name "Obama" is as common as the names "Joe" and "John". Who doesn't have at least fifteen "Obama"'s in their address book!?
Hell, it's almost as common as the illegal use of law enforcement badges in Mittens' home state of Massachusetts as a low-life entitled classist candidate's means of exercising one's greater status and the privileges and rights attendant thereon.
Next you'll be accusing Mittens of being a flip-flopping opportunist who'll say anything to get elected, even the overtly racist, and that his only core value is that he has no core value.
Even if all those things were true about Mittens, Guliani is a liar too.
July 22, 2007 2:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
And not so subtle (exploiter of the) racist.
July 22, 2007 2:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
Question: The seven word incantation that changed Mitt to Mutt.
July 22, 2007 4:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well, six words. "Moma" is a mutt like Mitt is.
July 22, 2007 4:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
don't do the GOP's work by showing these pics and giving them some importance. There's about a million more important things that will resonate with people more. It doesn't matter if Romney looks like a jerk. He'll never be president this cycle. It does, however, solidify these ideas in the minds of the voters. Unconsciously, voters will make the connection between Obama and Osama. The Dems are lightyears behind the GOP in their exploitation of basic human cognitive psychology. They do this stuff all the time.
July 22, 2007 4:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
Mittens is (sorta like Cheney) a Big Game hunter: he has a million ways to shoot himself in the foot.
And he has an endless supply of feet, some of which he stores in his mouth.
July 22, 2007 4:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
Some of us are very much aware of the not-so-subtle subliminal racism in the poster -- which comes directly from moronic fake FOX "news" to the morons who repeat it, replete with misspellings (even when only speaking). But the explanation of that is too sophisticated for the morons to understand. What they do understand is personal attack -- ridicule. They will laugh at ridicule before they will concern themselves with the target of the ridicule.
And when it comes to opportunities for ridicule, Mittens (like Guliani) is a gift that keeps on giving.
Watch: Mittens' campaign appeal to Hispanics will be:
"We don' neeed no steenking batches!"
July 22, 2007 4:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
Morons have a right to political representation too. Problem is, those they help steal elections have the gall to impose their view that they're the president of everyone else too.
July 22, 2007 4:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
we can only hope Romeny is the nominee.
LMAO. imagine a Mormon at the top of the ticket. it would be a landslide victory!
July 22, 2007 6:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well Mitt, looks like you got the dumb blond hate vote all sewed up. Who knew when you talked about varmit hunting that you were the varmit?
Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys.
P. J. O'Rourke
July 22, 2007 6:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think it was wise for Romney to hold up a negative campaign sign. I did not, however, read the sign as comparing Obama and Osama. It seemed to be a quickly prepared (and insensitive) use of alliteration to say: "No to Terrorism, and No to the two Democratic frontrunners", who the Romney suppoter must feel are not tough enough. Trying to spin this into a controversy (and invoking Hilter???) is just irresponsible. Rommney has plenty of substantive philosophical and policy related baggage that should be the focus of efforts to defeat him.
July 22, 2007 7:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
You're reading a comma where none exists. The sign is clearly taking advantage of all of the bigoted statements made in the news media earlier this year to remind people that Obama has a Muslim name, just like Osama.
To help you with the Hitler analogy, imagine a supporter's sign held by Hillary Clinton stating "No to Mitt Hitler" WITH NO COMMA. Would you advise Romney's supporters to just ignore it?
July 22, 2007 7:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don’t think it's equating or comparing anyone to suggest that this makes Mitt Macaca's papa.
July 22, 2007 7:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
And your post is not a personal attack? Somehow when I read it, the word that came to mind was not "sophisticated" but "paranoid." Continuing the Bush-Clinton era cycles of partisan warfare solves nothing.
July 22, 2007 7:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
Looks like this is what it takes to get a photo with Mitt.
I think that should be the message.
July 22, 2007 8:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
Are you serious? Do you really want to argue about missing "comma placement" in a 7-word rally placard (with misspellings) that most people read, like I did, in a split second. I think you are reading a conspiracy where none exists. Enough of the "gotcha" culture. Let's focus on substance.
July 22, 2007 8:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
When I see "Some people say," I think of Fox News and aa Bush-style introduction for a simplistic, straw man, either-or choice.
July 22, 2007 9:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
Right on.
My mother used to tell of two cereals that dominated the market when she was a little girl.
The advertising wars were supplemented by partisans on both sides who said their cereal tasted better and/or was more nutritious than the other cereal.
Both cereals were made in the same factory and in the same vat and poured into different boxes with different labels.
The DLC determined that the only way to make the Democrats competitive with the Republicans was to make them pretty much the same. And thus Bill Clinton and his appeal to the privileged classes.
There is a chance this cycle that the Democratic Party will finally return to its roots.
That would be nice.
Best, Terry
July 22, 2007 9:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
"Say no to terrorism"? Is that really what we're supposed to believe the sign was saying? Wow, what a bold stand for Mitt to take.
Give me a break. Mitt got caught red-handed in the same way that the RNC tries to depict Howard Dean or Hillary as Hitler. These "folks" deserve all the scorn they get for it. Nip it now in the bud if you want to raise the level of discourse in this country.
July 22, 2007 9:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
"No to Nazi General Romney Rommel"
Come on, people; let's get the signs made and the T-shirts printed.
July 22, 2007 10:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
"Say no to KKK Huckabee and Republikans"
Hey, this subliminal suggestion stuff is easy!
July 22, 2007 10:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
One argument I'm seeing made is that publicizing this sign only does the GOP's work by putting the "Obama/Osama" smear out there on full display.
I disagree.
Obama's name is always going to rhyme with Osama, so this particular smear is not going away any more than good old "Adam and Steve." After all, rhyming is the maximum level of sophistication for the troglodyte wingnut mind. So if Obama manages to win the primary, he will be seeing a lot of this rhyme. Unless, that is, he can make comparisons of him to Osama Bin Laden politically radioactive.
If I were Obama, I'd go nuclear on Mitt for this. If he can damage Mitt badly enough - and force an apology - it will not only defuse the "Obama/Osama" smear by connecting it to Romney's losing campaign, but he will also put it "off limits" for other campaigns going forward. Unfortunately, it won't be easy. The media is not going to react to this picture like it would if Obama held up a sign comparing Bush to Hitler. Conservative pundits like O'Reilly and Hannity are always ready to crank up the outrage for such an offense...but the pathetic group of pundits who wear the "liberal" labels in our national media are all too cool for school. They would never get worked up over such name calling. They know Republican voters loves this stuff and are afraid to say so. So attacking Romney has its risks.
Still, I would do it for one reason: Romney is the only candidate stupid enough to hold the sign himself. Any other candidate would rely on his surrogates or supporters to deliver the smear. It creates an opportunity for a direct attack on Romney himself, which could create enough extra buzz to make a mark.
Again, the Obama/Osama rhyme - and all the implications that go with it - is not going anywhere. Better to use Romney's stupidity to defuse the issue now than let it ripen for the general election. Besides, this is a chance for Obama to show he can fight...
July 22, 2007 10:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
I agree. If I were the campaign, I'd definitely release some sort of statement. Given their themes, I'd say their statement should read something like this:
"Pictures surfaced yesterday of Mitt Romney tacitly endorsing a crude and hateful sign that compared me to Osama Bin Laden. This is exactly the type of politics my campaign is trying to move beyond. I call on Mitt to not apologize to me, but rather to the American people, for thinking so lowly of them as to believe they'd actually be persuaded by such ignorance. By campaigning in the gutter, Mitt does a disservice to us all"
Or something like that.
July 22, 2007 10:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
Or Obama could ignore it and focus on things that matter to the nation.
July 22, 2007 10:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm not arguing about comma placement at all. I'm stating, correctly, that your interpretation of the sign is based on a misreading, an assertion that you made no effort to defend. The sign no more said "No to Osama" than it said "The moon is made out of green cheese."
Nor am I arguing about "conspiracy" (your word).
It is conforting to think that if we simply ignore inappropriate behaivor by candidates they'll simply go away. But I don't think it's true. It is both possible and necessary to condemn inappropriate behavior by the candidates as well as "focus on substance."
July 22, 2007 10:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
Like John Kerry ignored the Swift Boat attacks? Last I checked, standing up for yourself matters in American politics.
July 22, 2007 10:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think it's a big leap to read the sign as "Obama-Osama", one entity that equates the two, seeing as how Rush did that himself just over a week ago
July 22, 2007 11:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
party-of-one, I suggest you take a cruise over the FAQ page to read up on the guidelines for rating comments:
Maybe you haven't read it since you've only been a member for three weeks - but ratings of 0's and 1's are not appropriate for comments like the one above. Maybe gjdodger's joke is not in the best taste, but considering Romney's actions, it should be taken with a serious grain of salt. (To spell it out, gjdodger is making a joke about extreme political language in response to Romney's actions - not conducting an ad hominen attack against Romney by calling him a Nazi.)
July 22, 2007 11:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
I rated up to counter the inappropriate "0" rating. I suggest others do the same
July 22, 2007 11:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
Mmmmmm, I would go a bit stronger.
"Yesterday, pictures surfaced showing Mitt Romney holding a sign comparing me to the biggest mass murderer in American history. In the picture Mr. Romney - who doesn't even know me - is grinning as he accuses me of being one and the same with pure evil. This is not just unacceptable, it is disgusting. I have not met Mr. Romney and I cannot look into his heart, but his actions suggest that he is willing to sink to any depth, to cross any line, to say anything - no matter how reprehensible - to get elected. It must stop. Mr. Romney's crass comparison is not discourse or political speech. It is filth. It is pure hatred, and there is no room for it in America. I demand an immediate apology from Mitt Romney for his disgusting, dispicable actions."
Or something along those lines. The important thing is to respond swiftly. Doing nothing empowers the right.
July 22, 2007 11:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
Talk about willful ignorance. The meaning of the sign is obvious. The sign maker favors Romney over the two major Democratic candidates:
1. "Obama Osama"
and
2. "Chelsea's Moma"
How do we know this? Because the rightwing has been making "Obama/Osama" jokes for months now. Just like they make jokes about Obama's middle name, Hussein. This is not some new smear. It's the same smear they've been using for months. The meaning is obvious.
July 22, 2007 11:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you. I hope this puts the "conspiracy" talk to rest.
"Obama Osama" has been dittohead material for a long time now. The person who wrote Romney's sign was repeating a smear that has been circulating in the rightwing fever swamps for months. Interpreting it any other way is simply incorrect.
July 22, 2007 11:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
Not only would it be incorrect, it would unnecessarily--nay, inappropriately--generous.
July 22, 2007 11:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
Jebus I wish I lived on your planet. They stick to the issues and just talk about substantive stuff there, huh? Pretty cool. And turning the other cheek and meekly not responding to this kind of smear job actually works to get you elected? That must be a great place to live. Not like here, though. We have this really crappy system, and the guys who refuse to play by it always seem to end up in second place. "People love Dems who submit meekly and hate the ones who fight back!" seems to be the kind of advice our guys are always losing with.
Wish I lived on your planet, though. Clearly it's a much better one than this one.
[edit: Submitted as reply to party-of-one at 10:32am. Silly system lost that when I logged in apparently.]
July 22, 2007 11:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
His laugh won't last long. The primary election will wipe it off!
http://osi-speaks.blogspot.com/2007/07/mitt-romney-may-laugh-now-but-his-laugh.html#links
July 22, 2007 12:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is just another simple example of a GOPer pandering to the stupid and crazy - i.e. HIS BASE. Evidently, Mitt believes that the enough of the American people are as stupid and crazy as the folks to whom he has to pander, in order to win his Party's nomination.
My suggested response from Obama:
"The American people aren't interested in the incompetent and failed polices of the Republican Party. Such polices, clearly represented by Governor Romney, specifically and the field of Republican candidates, generally, have landed us in the position we are currently in.
In 2008 the American people have a choice between candidates who are prepared to tackle the difficult issues facing the American public: the disaster that is the war in Iraq, the economy, health care, education, etc. OR we can chose the miguided approach emodied by Governor Romney, a candidate who consideres comparing my first name to that of the criminal whom the GOP has failed to bring to justice (or even adequately pursue), clever and whoes version of well-thought out national security policy solely consists of 'double Gitmo.'
I don't think that the American people are in the mood for Bush times 2."
July 22, 2007 12:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
As an aside, I wish politicians wouldn't lend their credibility to the dragging of other politicians' children into political fights. Chelsea Clinton isn't fair game.
July 22, 2007 2:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
I was simply asserting, correctly, that your interpretation of the sign constitutes a vast overeach worthy of conspiracy theorists. If you feel compelled "to condemn" a candidate's behavior based on a snapshot of a crudely-made placard at a campaign rally, enjoy yourself. I'm no Romney fan, but holding a candidate personally accountable for every word they touch and every opinion rally participants express seems an impossibly high standard. Will you apply it to all candidates and all rallys? I'll continue give amatuerish placards the quick read they deserve and save my scrutiny for policy debates and platforms.
July 22, 2007 2:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Valid points. It may be naive, but I see even greater harm coming to the nation if we can't elevate political debate and end the absolutely unproductive cycles of partisan warfare that the Bushes and the Clinton thrive on.
July 22, 2007 2:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks Owenz. I did read the FAQ as your recommended. Actually, I find comparisons of legitimate, elected American politicians of either party to Hilter and the Nazis to be highly offensive.
July 22, 2007 2:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh man. "an alliterative play on words". I just laughed out loud.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE let Romney be the nominee.
"Truth forever on the scaffold, wrong forever on the throne"
-James Russell Lowell
July 22, 2007 3:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
I can see the sign being read with the comma, or without. It's not much improved by the addition of the comma, though.
There are several issues here, I think.
One is what constitutes a gaffe by prevailing media standards for (Democratic) candidates. By those standards, I think for Mitt Romney to stand smilingly beside someone holding this sign is unquestionably a gaffe. It's not something that I would base my vote on, but it's a gaffe.
A second issue is whether those prevailing media standards, and the degree to which the media focuses on "gaffes," actually contribute to political discourse.
A related question is mebbe how to deal with what one considers frivolous controversy-mongering. Do you demand that the coverage of gaffes be at least equally frivolous for all candidates? Do you demand a stop to the silliness altogether? Ignore it all? Or...?IMO, there is an imbalance in how gaffes are covered by mainstream media, most of it derived from decades of conservative activism in working the media refs, countered by almost no similar activism from the left.
On the one hand, some liberals find the whole concept of working the refs objectionable, but on the other hand, the effects of working the refs are much worse when only one faction does it.
July 22, 2007 3:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ha! I thought of the MoMA as well.
At first I was outraged that someone would make such an inflammatory sign, but when I realized that the woman can't spell and her attempt to be witty and malicious was as as sharp as a box of hair, I just pitied her (What desperate fool involves Chelsea in a smear?).
The fact that both this woman and Mitt Romney are so damn proud of themselves is the perfect snapshot of the right-wing.
July 22, 2007 3:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
It goes to attitude and character, that he would participate in language and images such as that. I can see, to a certain extent, how he could have his picture taken with someone carrying that sign, given the emotion and excitement that accompanies a rally. However, taking that sign and hoisting it yourself, then not realizing the error you've made and moving heaven and earth to make certain it never sees the light of day, well that's something entirely different. Compounding the whole issue is sending your campaign toadies out to ridicule anyone daring to bring it up, and trying to make light of it. Don't insult me. Admit you screwed up, apologize, quickly, and try to get it behind you. Don't they ever learn?
July 22, 2007 3:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm of several minds on this.
The first says that Obama, Clinton, and Dems should just ignore this. It's simply playing off the extremist assertions about an Obama connection to Islamic terrorists, à la the madrassa "connection" and Limbaugh referring to Barack Hussein Obama. Ugly to bring Chelsea into it, but she can doubtless handle it.
Then there's the one that wants to hit back. Condemn this sign and Romney's implicit agreement with it as the personal attack against Obama that it is, trumpeting the hate-speech aspect with which Romney seems sanguine. Decry the tackiness of mentioning Chelsea at all. Who one's parents are should not make a daughter or son fair game. If you don't hit back, you put yourself in Kerry's position with the Swift Boaters, as a comment above pointed out. Play as dirty as the Repubs do, because the only way to counter stuff like this is to out-shout it.
My third mind would love to take the complete high road and let it pass without mention, but it knows that there should be some response. But that response needs to be tempered by that high road. Fighting back with ad hominem attacks lowers the Dem candidates and their supporters to the level of those who cynically engage in those attacks to sway emotions. Object to the action, not the person who's doing it.
So this mind wants Obama and Clinton to address the distasteful words on the placard and not the person who wrote them or Romney for holding up the sign. Condemn the action and not the actors. Go so far as to say that someone who is running for the country's highest office demeans that office by literally supporting personal slurs, and that the judgment in that moment deserves to be questioned. So it's not Romney who's being criticized; it's his actions and judgment. Don't even bother to mention the Romney supporter, except to express dismay at what's on the sign.
I just don't want Democratic candidates to buy into the nastiness of Conservative extremists. I want them to be better than that. Judging by Hillary's reactions to both the YearlyKos-O'Reilly thing and the Under Secretary of Defense's inappropriate letter, I think she'll take the approach my third mind has. That's the one I'd like to see us all take, so we are not reduced to attacking the person instead of the actions.
July 22, 2007 4:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Here’s to Mitt’s hack, Mr. Madden!
Your forked tongue would normally sadden,
Anyone with a soul
(Not a Coulterish black hole).
’Tis Osama whose heart you do gladden!
July 22, 2007 4:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
"sign with an alliterative play on words"
Um, I don't think this is alliteration. It's rhyming. Is this someone trying to sound more educated than he really is?
......no, that couldn't be it, could it?
July 22, 2007 4:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, the right using "obama osama" to plaster Obama with negative connotations is the stuff of "conspiracy theories"
http://mediamatters.org/items/200612200005
http://mediamatters.org/items/200612150011
http://colorado.mediamatters.org/items/200702160005
Naw, nothing to see here, just a bunch of liberal conspiracy theorists.
Hmmm...
a right-winger on craigslist
And this wouldn't be complete with the Corner
Right wing blog post titled Doozie of the Day: Barak Obama Osama Yo Mama to discuss his stance on aid to Palestine.
And the icing on the cake:
NY Times
July 22, 2007 4:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Interpreting a phrase from a right-wing partisan to read exactly in the manner that many nationally-recognized right-wing partisans have used it for months is a "vast overreach"? LOL at you announcing yourself "correct" here when you couldn't be more wrong, and more of an apologist for demagoguery.
If you don't pay attention to talk radio, Fox news, Drudge, The Corner, etc...more power to you. But then don't pretend to have any sort of authority on what is and is not common-place amongst the regulars in those places. "Obama-Osama" is not something I just conjured up out of the ether. As I noted, its something even Rush Limbaugh has used edti: wrong year, oops.
At this point, you're either too stubborn to admit you're wrong on this point, or simply willfully ignorant.
If the candidate tacitly endorses the sign by posing for a picture next to it while grinning, then grabs the sign himself and holds it up...yes, I do feel compelled to condemn him. As should you.
If the sign had explicitly said "Obama is a terrorist" would that be worth condemning? Or would you apologize for that as well?
I dunno, maybe I just value things like "judgment" in a candidate, I guess I'm crazy. I guess Mitt's demagoguery should be ignored so we can focus on the details of the reams of policy papers he's circulating.
July 22, 2007 4:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Do you always characterize people you disagree with as "ignorant"? I fully understand your world view now. It offers nothing of value for a reasonable discussion. Peace.
July 22, 2007 4:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Are you ok? Looks like you went off the deep end.
July 22, 2007 4:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
1-I didn't call you ignorant. You could simply be stubborn.
2-But this isn't a question of mere difference of opinion. Its not subjective. You calling my interpretation an overreach worthy of a conspiracy theorist makes a factual claim about the prevalence of use of the phrase in the manner I described by the people in question. Your complaint only makes sense if there haven't been a whole host of instances of people using the phrase "Obama-Osama" or otherwise explicitly comparing the two. Of course, there have have been a whole host of such incidents. The fact that you think my interpretation is the stuff of conspiracy theories, then, can only be borne of ignorance to that fact. Or a stubborn nature in the face of those facts.
3-In response to this: <blockquote> It offers nothing of value for a reasonable discussion</blockquot>
...I can only laugh. I've offered nothing but support for my viewpoint. You've continued to steadfastly deny what is obviously true. Who's not bringing anything of value?
July 22, 2007 4:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
I believe the repetition of O's, M's and A's is alliteration. There is also a rhyme.
July 22, 2007 4:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm just fine. I simply typed "obama osama" into google and copy-pasted for about 2 minutes. Took next to no effort.
Do you always accuse those who embarrass you in argument by presenting actual evidence of their viewpoint as going "off the deep end"?
July 22, 2007 4:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nope. Alliteration has to be either the first letter consonant or a first-syllable vowel sound.
EDIT: actually, you're correct..O-bama, O-sama, m-O-ma...3 O's in a row in the 1st syllable is alliterative.
The M's and A's, however, are not.
July 22, 2007 4:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
From the Oxford American Dictionary, bundled with Mac OS X Tiger:
"Alliteration: The occurrence of the same letter or sound at the beginning of adjacent or closely connected words."
I'm pretty sure this "play on words" is not alliterative.
July 22, 2007 4:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
mmm...I'm divided. The O's at the beginning of Obama and Osama actually could be alliterative with a similarly pronounced O in the 3rd word, but the O in "moma" (lol) is actually prounced, well, "ah".
So, I'm back-tracking again on this, and am gonna say its not alliterative, cause its not the same sound.
July 22, 2007 4:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks. The repetition of vowel sounds, I guess, is Assonance.
July 22, 2007 4:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
The long vowel "O" works. So I guess it's both alliterative (with the O's) and a rhyme. And on top of that, it's bigoted and immature!
July 22, 2007 5:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Condemn this sign and Romney's implicit agreement with it as the personal attack against Obama that it is, trumpeting the hate-speech aspect with which Romney seems sanguine. Decry the tackiness of mentioning Chelsea at all."
It is utterly moronic to claim that such a valid and appropriate response is "dirty" or is "ad hominem" or "buy[s] into the nastiness of Conservative extremists".
"so we are not reduced to attacking the person instead of the actions"
The action was to hold up the sign, have the photograph taken, and then lie about the meaning of the sign. An ad hominem attack on the person would be something like "No wonder Romney did this; he's an opportunist".
July 22, 2007 5:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Haha, thanks, and fantastic.
July 22, 2007 5:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
There was certainly no embarassment for me. Interesting that you were seeking to embarass me rather than persuade me. I'm learning quickly this site is not open to disucssion of differing opinions.
July 22, 2007 5:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, someone doesn't learn. This, like George Allen's "macaca" moment, isn't just a screw-up for which Romney should be allowed to apologize and move on, it provides a candid look at his character, and what he considers appropriate commentary. Despite the media's success in painting politics as a game, something where the players try to win but the outcomes don't affect our world beyond that, politics is actually life, and it matters a great deal who "wins" the power to make policy, what sort of person they are. No apology from Romney should be considered enough.
July 22, 2007 5:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
There's no "partisan warfare", there's only right wing evil.
July 22, 2007 5:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
"I don’t think it was equating or comparing anyone."
wow, so right out of the bush/cheney playbook.
It's from the 'Hey, Your Fly is down/ NO IT'S NOT/ Yes, it is, i'm looking at it right now/ NO IT'S NOT. YOU CAN'T PROVE IT!' school of politics.
you can't fault them for trying.
July 22, 2007 5:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
You folks are remarkably thick. It's
O / bama
O / sama
and Chelsea's / mamma
A common rhyme form, with no alliteration.
July 22, 2007 5:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, like
Obama, Osama, and Chelsea's moma
Romney, McCain-y, and Giuliani
is just an innocent play on words, and there's no significance at all to the "odd man out".
July 22, 2007 6:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
You are being remarkably obtuse and dishonest; no one compared Romney to a Nazi.
Beyond that, there is no law of nature that says that Americans can't be similar to Hitler or the Nazis. Quite a few Americans, even elected ones, subscribe to fascist principles.
July 22, 2007 6:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Please don't get discouraged.
It's really good to hear some voices that are not necessarily reading from a catechism, whether I agree or disagree.
Best, Terry
July 22, 2007 6:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
[where's the delete button?]
July 22, 2007 6:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
I certainly was not endeavoring to embarrass you. However, given your unwillingness to be persuaded by mountains of evidence...I would call that embarrassing, yes.
It is interesting to note that one who is so quick to call others conspiracy theorists (who have gone off the deep end) is rather sensitive about being called ignorant or embarrassing.
EDIT: and I rated up some of your comments that had been inappropriately--IMO--rated 0's and 1's.
July 22, 2007 6:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Jibal, it is very possible that I can be aware, informed and concerned and still hold a different opinion from yours. Going on the attack in a first communication, labeling me obtuse, dishonest and ignorant, as is the group think response here, doesn't really advance the politcial discourse. Does thinking differently from you make me an enemy? Why rate my every post as a "0"? Is the message: Go away?
With regard to Hilter and the Nazis, arguably, they represent the most horrendous chapter in human history, agressively engaing the entire world in war, coming close to totalitarian global domination,and systematically exterminating MILLIONS of innocent people. In my estimation, nothing in American politics comes remotely close to that and making the comparison trivializes the extreme that the Nazis represent. My opinion. You are entitled to yours.
July 22, 2007 8:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
David Duke, Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan and American Nazi Party member, got a sizable number of votes years ago when he ran for governor of Louisiana as a Republican. (Duke claimed to have cut ties with these fine organizations but that was about all.)
People are aghast when you mention Nazis in polite company but they are alive and well - unfortunately.
Best, Terry
July 22, 2007 8:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
For what it's worth, I live in South Carolina, and the sign is the punchline of an aggressively dumb joke I've heard recently from several republican "friends." It's something like, Chelsea Clinton is speaking to a group of elementary school students, and she asks one little girl what scares her. The girl says, Osama, Obama, and yo' mama. The republicans seemed to find the joke absolutely hysterical.
July 22, 2007 8:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Point well taken.
July 22, 2007 9:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for this very interesting perspective from South Carolina. Could it be that the sign was actually echoing the punchline of a bad joke? Sounds plausible.
Maybe poster Owenz will rethink his certainty, when he said above that: "'Obama Osama' has been dittohead material for a long time now. The person who wrote Romney's sign was repeating a smear that has been circulating in the rightwing fever swamps for months. Interpreting it any other way is simply incorrect." Maybe not.
July 22, 2007 9:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Have you had these feelings long, that anyone your disagree with is "ignorant"?
You might want to read the post below from BlueDot/RedState from South Carolina, who identifies the words on the poster as the punchline of a bad joke involving Chelsea Clinton: "Osama, Obama, and yo' mama." While not flattering, it doesn't seem to be the insult you were reading it to be.
July 22, 2007 9:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
You may want to check out the post from BlueDot/Redstate below. Seems the words on the poster may well be the punchline from a bad joke involving Chelsea Clinton: "Osama, Obama, and yo' mama." While not flattering, it doesn't seem to be the insult you were reading it to be.
July 22, 2007 9:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm afraid that this interpretation isn't much better, in that it equates the leader of al Qaeda with the Democratic frontrunners for president, and still does word-play with Obama's name to further that "joke."
July 23, 2007 8:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
As they say, some of the most powerful words in politics are "There he goes again."
Highlighting this outrageous poster is of a piece with Romney's embrace of Ann Coulter. That time the story was he didn't know that Coulter would say something as offensive as she usually does. This time apparently he was so dazzled by the clever word play, he didn't understand what the sign was saying. Uh huh. There he goes again.
July 23, 2007 9:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
The two aren't mutually exclusive. Surely certain Republicans find that joke hilarious in large part because it's a way to repeat the "Obama Osama" smear they so enjoy.
July 23, 2007 9:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
"[L]iterally supporting personal slurs" refers to the action of holding up the sign and having his picture taken. Those are the things that literally happened, his actions.
Sorry if my using the word literally when I actually meant literally was confusing. I know that doesn't happen much any more.
And thank you for calling my claim moronic rather than calling me a moron. That's what I'm talking about!
July 23, 2007 11:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
No To
Romney,
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& Fascists!
or
No To
Romney &
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Republicans!
No To
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July 23, 2007 12:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm all for elevating the political debate, it's one of the reasons I adore Obama, but when your opponent slings mud, you don't just smile and say "thank you, sir, my I have another" you swing back. This deserves a swing back.
July 23, 2007 6:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
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