I simply cannot understand why Reid does not continue to force the republicans to filibuster the Reed Levin amendment. Most of those guys are so old there is no way they could do another 2 or 3 days...

didnt they vote already?

Thanks, Greg. I suspected this is what Reid's doing, but I don't know Senate procedure very well. I knew someone more knowledgeable would show up soon enough to explain it. :-)

Thank you Senator Reid for stepping up, doing the right thing AND entering it into the public record.

See, that's the problem I have with many of the Democratic explanations for policies and procedures... it usually requires ANOTHER explanation of the explanation!

Come on, Harry, just use plain English, OK? Makes for better sound-bytes, anyway.

"The GOP filibustered a bill to bring our troops home. The GOP hates our troops. So, we're not voting on ANY Iraq resolution or bill until the GOP start to love our troops again, and vote to bring them home."

~~~~~~~~~~~
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.

Come visit PROJECT: Lucidity.

ditto ditto ditto..yahooo!!

Harry's in for the whipping of his life by the media... but good for him.

It was a procedural move.

By voting no, he is now allowed to bring up the amendment for further consideration and another cloture vote at another time.

If my memory is correct, several years ago the senate rules were changed concerning the filibuster. It used to be that a filibuster had to be kept going continuously or the members in attendance could vote cloture as long as a quorum was present. Then, the rules changed so that a filibuster became mostly an announcement that the opposition would not support a cloture vote, but 60 votes were always required for cloture. Thus, very few actual filibusters have taken place since then, if any. My understanding is that until a cloture vote achieves 60 yeas, debate cannot be closed, even if there is no one there actually debating, and there is no time limit.

Hoppy in Sacramento

Sooo, what we have here is a "debateless" filibuster, is that it?

 No business is being conducted by the Senate, because this filibuster is still ongoing, just without sound?

slb,

Thank you for explaining and clearing that up . . . And saving me the time to Google to respond.

The filibuster was designed as the final tool of the last sane man in Washington (okay Philadelphia at the time) to prevent legislation contrary to the good of the nation due to undue passion of a mob mentality . . . Unfortunately in the last half century , it has tended to be used by one or more pissed off dudes attempting to protect graft/earmarks or a deep-pockets interest group.
- - - -
If the Dems really wanted to bust the filibuster while usiing the rules of the Senate to break the back of the pro-perpetual war crowd, they would force them to talk to they drop while the DNC or others run ads on news networks pointing out what a jack_hole each speaker is being - Using their own words.

Imagine a world were where the assine actually cut their own throats by being the wads that they are. The political landscape in 2008 would be radically different if a little sunlight were shined on the whole process . . . and the Republicans would be forced to change or become the footnote in history the deserve to be.

I like what Reid is doing here, but let's be real here, how long is it until the wingnuts (and Diane Sawyer) are on TV blasting about how the Democrats refuse to fund the troops? Until the media calls it like it is, this is a losing battle.

on TV blasting about how the Democrats refuse to fund the troops? Until the media calls it like it is, this is a losing battle.

Well, if they do, Reid needs to simply say "House Rules, you do not get to go outside and play until you do the dishes, sweep the floor and take out the trash"

I still dont get it - I thought they voted on this and it did not get the required number of votes...

They didn't vote on the Reed-Levin amendment itself (that's what the GOP filibuster prevents)...they failed to vote to cut off debate so that the Senate could vote on the amendment. Since the amendment has yet to be voted on, however, it's still sitting there, ready to be called up at any time.

So, exactly what was the point, if Reid simply allows a cloture vote, the vote fails (as it was destined to do), and then he ends actual debate and lets the GOP go home?

I thought the whole purpose was to keep the GOP in the Senate chamber debating until they voted "yea" for cloture and allowed a straight up-or-down vote.

What is the purpose of this charade otherwise?

(It did indeed get CNN to acknowledge and print that the GOP was engaged in a filibuster, some small victory, and it did focus public attention on the issue, but I fail to see how it moved the Democratic ball forward towards the goal an inch.)

Technically, this is all correct.

However, your last paragraph could be debated (no pun intended). Each Senator can speak twice per LEGISLATIVE day, which is not the same as a calendar day. So, if Reid simply refused to adjourn the session, eventually each Senator would speak twice and an up-and-down vote would occur - without cloture - by fiat.

No one can speak indefinitely - a human would either quit of his/her own volition, or pass out due to hunger/thirst/lack of sleep. All Reid had to do was keep the session open, [edited] and post the Seargant-at-Arms in the entry way to bar Senators from leaving.

~~~~~~~~~~~
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.

Come visit PROJECT: Lucidity.

You probably know what is going on by another name . . . The anymonous hold. A Senator, through the leadership of his Party's caucus, lets the entire body know of he/she/its intention to filibuster the legislation . . .

For the last twenty years or so . . . rather than giving some jack_hole the floor, the Senate (our deliberative body of government) has chosen to forgo debate.

You are right in your understanding of the situation BUT the Senate has been jumping outta way of debate rather than playing chicken . . .

The Dems NEED to make these jack_holes stand up and commit political suicide OR literately die of fatigue while cutting their own throats with their own flapping gums.

The price of being pro-perpetual warfare needs to be that you no longer get to make decissions.

It is not just the leadership. Any senator wanting a future voice on the subject has to vote no.

yes, exactly, thanks for clarifying that. I fully agree that he could have forced them to keep going, although I would guess that 47 Senators who each get 2 shots would be able to keep talking for a loong time (many days).

The bottom line is that Reid and the Democrats should have simply been calling press conferences and agreeing to TV appearance and screeming filibuster, filibuster, filibuster every single opportunity, just like the GOP did on a mere four judicial nominations.

They didn't and until they learn that you control Americans' minds by repetition, stridency, and loudness, they aren't going to budge the majority of theGOP one inch.

They should also have letter to the editor writing campaigns in every single GOP district or state to every single newspaper and other media outlet calling the GOP tactics a filibuster and naming the GOP senator as being one of those using the filibuster.

HA! That's a helluva good point. Holy Joe was one of the Gang of 14, wasn't he? I'd love to hear a reporter ask him why he thinks that it's important to have up or down votes on judicial nominees, but the war in Iraq isn't important enough an issue to warrant the same treatment?

Our Republican friends during the reign of Saint Ron-dog Reagan, virtually wiped out the teaching of Civics/Government/Political Science. "Every Child Right Behind" was their death-nail shot at teaching future generations to seek understanding of the political process.

We gotta teach everytime we do. There is no choice. Between corporate control of the media and Republicans working to squelch the functions of government over the last 30 plus years, America depends on the People being informed that it is their government.

Additionally, cries of "Keep it simple," tend to be turned into obsure and doublespeak over time all in the name of shouting down the intellectual elite.

Americans are not stupid . . . The Republican Party has trained us to think they are.

Dear Democrats.

Why did Reid throw in the towel so fast? Did he actually believe any of the right wing nuts kool-aid drinking Presidential war for oil supporters where going to change their minds overnight..literally? haha. no. You should of kept the congress in session 24x7 to get media attention to the 'OBSTRUCTIONIST REPUBLICANS' that are blocking the will of the people, and tied that into a blocking of the other bills to fund the troops.

So, what happened? Lost your will so soon? Really Mr Reid, you should think of another career path, maybe doormat fits you better.

My condolences.

You are absolutely wrong. What we have witnessed at least 48 times since the start of the 110th Congress is the Republicans engage in a filibuster. A cloture vote is a vote to stop debate, it isn't a vote on the merits of the proposal. You can find out more about Rule 22 by following this link.

Ron Byers

Indeed. Harry is finally getting it right.

Actually you may wish to revisit your interpetation of Jefferson . . . After reading his writings from source documents. There are several anthologies that include his personal correspondence on the matter.

Unfotunately for most of us, a significant number of authors of the post Goldwater textbooks and treatises were/are writing from a more Hobbes-ian point of view than Jefferson personally had. This is another example of the selective nature of the 'conservative' practise of 're-inventing history' through selective quotation . . . Often skewing the intent of the whole into its polar opposite.

They remain intent on murdering the spirit of the man who wrote volumes disassembling the very views that are being assigned to him. Only Benjamin Franklin is more misquoted.

Regarding your observations regarding life choices and the infantalizing the American public:

The concept of 'CHOICES' implies leisure time, education/edification and middle-class opportunities. Multi-national corporate control of our nation's ecomonics and impact on college cirriculum has dramatically shifted what we know and the time we have to add to or alter our knowledge base. When you are working two jobs to feed your children (as Bush 43 declares in that uniquely American mode of supporting ones family), you don't got the time.

I guess my point is we need to expose folk to the concepts while their minds are flexible and growing and they have time to assimilate/grok the knowledge.

Assuming that you and I (literate, fairly educated and internet friendly) are statistically normal and therefore are a guage of the rest of the folk living on American dirt is not as solid of an assumption as one might like to assume.

In simpler words:

I'm not trivializing others, I believe that am speaking to the human condition.

RECAP:

The Reps want the bill to fund w/o attachments. They would be happy to vote on the bill.

For them it is the admendments, that they do not want. They will die rather than having to prove that they are actually WINOs.

The Reps nixed the end o' debate on the admendment.

Reid called them obstructionist assholes PUBLICLY ON the record.

We are all pissed that Reid did not force them to actually fillibuster . . . Instead he pulled the original bill from consideration until the Reps pull their threat to filibuster AND blamed the Reps for not funding the troops ON the record.

So the press is ggoing to say that is Reid's fault and the 29%ers are going to be outraged cuz some idiots on talk radio tell them to be.