I don't know that I think Obama is being disingenuous, but the campaign's boneheaded response definitely leaves room for doubt about his commitment to "anti-cynicism". His supporters won't have doubts, but he needs many more supporters than he currently has.

I have HRC above Obama, but neither are in my top two or three. But I'll say it again--point to Clinton. A few more spats like this and the image he's worked so hard to project will be tattered.

I'm tired of this media-generated pettiness. Almost everyone is tired of this psychoanalytical fake "spat" from the media which desperately wants to create an image of rivalry between the Clinton and Obama camps. It's all about gossip and silliness from these talking heads to sell papers and increase their dwindling ratings. The rest of America could care less. This is just insider the beltway drama for the talking heads.

Move on.

I think this might be getting a tad obsessive...

Given that Obama's entire campaign is based, for the time being, on anti-cynicism, I think his people would know not to jump in the fray. That's what's relevant. Perhaps it's boring, but it does say a little considering Obama publicly talks ad nauseum about a better politics and his subordinates aren't following suit. How can his supporters NOT understand something that's painfully obvious to anyone who looks 30 seconds at his campaign.

I'm not sure what to think. The Lincoln bedroom crack seems like something Obama wouldn't sign off on, but that's just my opinion.

Gwendyn, you are clearly right: there's no contradiction; he's saying that his general instruction was stay above the fray, not that his specific instruction to the Wolfson challenge was stay above the fray. Therefore, he may well not have known of Wolfson's challenge.

Still, it is wrong, wrong, wrong, to call another candidate a liar. It hurts us all in the long run.

Voters don't pay attention to smears from the other party. Voters are actually too smart for that. It is only when the smears come from the same party do they have traction. Like Bill Bradley calling Gore a liar. It was repeated and eventually stuck, and it became common knowledge that Gore would lie and do anything to get elected.

So we got Bush and Iraq and Guantanamo and Alito.

I think Obama got off the plane to a hord of grinning hyenas with microphones jabbing him in the face asking about Hillary and decided enough of that crap. He told his people to knock it off because he has bigger fish to fry and doesn't need a internecene squabble with the Clintons drowning out the day's msg. Then he promptly went out in front of a huge crowd standing in the rain in Austin and hit one of Dick Cheney's high hard ones meant as a beanball for Pelosi and smacked it right back at him off his noggin.

That's exactly how I want a Democratic candidate to treat the crazy morons in the WH. With all the disdain they deserve.

Theres something important here: Both Clinton and Obama allow their spokespeople (Wolfson and Gibbs) to say whatever they want to say. The campaign has a voice and the candidate isn't responsible for what the campaign says.

For so many years we've been told that Democrats need to fight back better. Is that really the problem? John Kerry should not have gone with the biographical message (war hero) as heavily as he did. That was the mistake that set up the Swiftboaters.

Marcf,

you say it is wrong, wrong, wrong to call another candidate a liar. Who is the candidate that called another a liar? I agree that would be awful. I only heard and read about Geffen calling Hillary and Bill a liar. Who is the candidate that is calling other candidates liars?

The problem is that Geffen did the Republican machines job. Not only against Hillary but against Obama. Hillary had to answer, Obama should have answered differently. Geffen should have just kept his mouth shut and given his money.

Senator Clinton has absolutely NO RIGHT to demand, as she did in Nevada, that candidates AND SUPPORTERS should not indulge in personal attacks. Candidates is okay with me. But SUPPORTERS? Give. Me. A. Break.

I'm not giving up my rights for Senator Clinton to become the judge of what a "personal attack" is or is not. She does not have that authority.

And Geffen has exactly the same rights as I do. Senator Clinton had all sorts of ways to respond. A joke. Ignoring it. A personal statement attacking Geffen. Instead, she chose to attack Obama who certainly does NOT control what a supporter says.

No you are perfectly right, sorry if I gave the impression otherwise.

It's just that I think Geffen was out of line. And I think Obama could have easily said something like that without directly criticizing Geffen, and he would have gained points like that with many Democrats. And I am afraid that the tit-tat could escalate to the point where name calling is the standard, to the great detriment of all Democrats.

. So between Geffen and the spokeman that makes two times that Obama people - I know not Obama

Well it is also quite  misleading to call this man a 'Obama people", no?  It gives the impression that he is somehow affliated with or paid by the campaign when in reality he is simply a private citizen and a person who gave a fundraiser for Obama. 

Geffen is in no way accountable to Obama and calling him an 'Obama people" gives the false impression that somehow he speaks at the behest of Obama and that is totally false.

 it wasn't Hillary Clinton that made that ridiculous comment in South Carolina but she was called on the carpet for it because a supporter of her made the comment

Right, but she did not apologize for it. either. Even though those 'supporters' are PAID consulting fees by her campaign. A definite campaign connection and much more likely PAID spokesman.  Hilliary has not only the power but responsibility  to hold them accountable or threaten monetary loss. Big difference.

Hilliary was simply wrong to have shot off about Geffen by dragging Obama into their 16 year old relationship cat fight.  Unless, she is going to attack all fundraisers including her own she was waaaay out of bounds on this.  Even having the unmitigated gall to 'demand' Obama give the money back?  WTF, who is she?  Some imperious Queen giving orders to serfs and minions?

Hilliary comes out of this looking really bad and like she is running scared.  Afterall, she is suppose to be the 'inevitable candidate'  based on her 'fundraising prowess'...she is the bigdog, Obama is nothing but a chiahuaha ...and any time the big dog acknowledges or attacks one of lesser stature, they elevate that dog to their level.  Hilliary gave credence to Obama being someone she is concerned about despite his 'inexperience'. He rattled her cage and showed her she is not the only one who can fundraise with clout and run with the big finance dogs.

This round definitely goes to Obama.

what i am saying is that Democrats should discuss politics and not do the republicans job for them and distroy our candidates

I agree Hiliary needs to keep her mouth shut. The people who support candidates as private citizens get to say whatever they choose about the opponent...SHE doesn't as a CANDIDATE.

Have you been continuing to follow this story?

It seems to have taken on a life of it's on. Newsweek has now come out with an article asking if Bill is too Embarassing for Hilliary.

This has turned out to be a major screw up for Hilliary, by responding as they did the negative Geffen remarks have been repeated ad nauseum and just reminded folks of all the things they did not like about the Clintons, even if they did like Bill's politics.

Now they are digging out the articles about Bill and that pretty UK politician that is wealthier than Crocus.  They say Bill has spent a lot of time with her as part of the G8 summitt.

This thing is getting tawdry.

Worst of all, they had all of Hilliary's talking points on MTP today, which were to rebut these very same points Geffen raised which makes Hilliary sound even worse for asking for an apology from Obama and having a hissy fit about something she already KNEW were her campaigns weakness.

I tell you I think this may be what implodes the entire campaign.

Her vote in the Senate continues to be an issue of substance that she refuses to address.

Obama has turned out to be a real problem for Hilliary. He is the reason she decided to announce her candidacy early and now it is turning into the rehash of all the problems with her. Her entire strategy was to create a sense of inevitability of her winning the nomination due to her fundraising prowess juggernaut and when Obama raise 1.2M in one Event...it shatter the aura of inevitability and she lost it, by coming out and making a mountain out of a molehill, she has just created SNAFU for her self.

unbelievable.  Geffen may have just toppled this house of cards.